No doubt there has been much discussion and argument over the WWF/E's legends over the years. But which superstars are looked up to as Legends by many that aren't meant to be?

 

Vince Mcmahon has a vision that is different to all and has deffinately gave credibility to superstars that are and were never meant to be legends. But which superstars do you think were given the title 'Legend' and dont deserve it? State reasons for your choices and list whoever IYO you think has done nothing for the the deserving of a 'Legend'

Mick Foley.

 

I agree with Flair's views on him. He can't wrestle so doesn't belong in a wrestling ring.

 

Entertaining, yes, but that doesn't mean he is a legend.

To be fair, Foley isn't in a wrestling ring, he's in a sports entertainment ring, and he entertains me for more than Flair EVER has. Foley wasn't an NWA guy, he was an ECW/WWE guy (WCW doesn't count :)), so I can understand why Flair doesn't like him. But WWE isn't wrestling in a pre format, as I said on another forum, so Flair's argument is slightly nulled.

Bret Hart.

 

He never drew inside the USA, when he was champion business was at an all-time low in terms of attendance, PPV buyrates, TV ratings etc.

 

WWF HAD to continually tour overseas to draw money, and even then, they werent drawing great.

 

Sure, he had a bunch of good matches (with the right opponents), but he had zero charisma, his promos sucked, he was boring and like I said earlier, he was a caretaker 'in between' champion. He held the belt and kept it warm for the next legit big star to come along.

 

He isnt a legend, he never did anything for the business or anything to help the WWF. He is no more a legend than Razor Ramon, Diesel, Jeff Jarrett, Lex Luger and people like that.

 

Bret Hart = Legend in his own mind.

Bret Hart.

 

He never drew inside the USA, when he was champion business was at an all-time low in terms of attendance, PPV buyrates, TV ratings etc.

 

WWF HAD to continually tour overseas to draw money, and even then, they werent drawing great.

 

Sure, he had a bunch of good matches (with the right opponents), but he had zero charisma, his promos sucked, he was boring and like I said earlier, he was a caretaker 'in between' champion. He held the belt and kept it warm for the next legit big star to come along.

 

He isnt a legend, he never did anything for the business or anything to help the WWF. He is no more a legend than Razor Ramon, Diesel, Jeff Jarrett, Lex Luger and people like that.

 

Bret Hart = Legend in his own mind.

 

What a surprise :roll

Sure' date=' he had a bunch of good matches (with the right opponents)[/quote']

Don't know about you, but I wouldn't class The Undertaker, Diesel, Isaac Yankem or Sid (all who he had entertaining matches with) as right opponents :lol

'Cowboy' Bob Orton by all accounts is not a legend despite being in the HoF frankly until WM i had never heard of the guy, also Yokozuna seems to get more props than he deserves. Also contraversial i know but really apart from his original incarnation i don't see Undertaker as a legend, one of the greats yes but not legendary, all he's really done is had the title a number of times, been around for a long time and almost killed a fellow worker (although that can be blamed on the prop guy). As for Bret Hart, i think he deserves it as he was a very skilled wrestler and i always found him entertaining

But to be fair belty, are you saying in the hall of fame we should only have Hogan, The Rock and Austin, because having decent matches, not being huge draws, and holding the title imbetween their runs isn't worthy, as in Bret's case?

What a surprise :roll

 

Whats that supposed to mean? Oh wait, I forgot, because YOU like Bret, Dave, everybody else has to aswell.

 

Here are your rolling eyes back, I dont need them. :roll

 

Don't know about you' date=' but I wouldn't class The Undertaker, Diesel, Isaac Yankem or Sid (all who he had entertaining matches with) as right opponents :lol[/quote']

 

I dont remember Bret have ANY entertaining matches with Isaac Yankem or Sid, his one with Taker at SummerSlam 97 was ok, but nothing great or memorable apart from the HBK finish, and the only worthwhile match he ever had with Deisel was at Survivor Series 1995, the others were horrible.

 

Brets good matches with with guys like Mr. Perfect, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, Owen Hart, Hakushi, 1-2-3 Kid, British Bulldog etc, who all pulled their weight to make them good as much as Bret, hence they were 'the right opponents.

 

When Bret was in there with poor wrestlers like Deisel, Sid, Taker, Jean-Pierre Lafitte, Skinner, Papa Shango, IRS, Bob Backlund, Jerry Lawler (he was poor come 1995), Yokozuna, Doink and so on, the matches ranged from ok to utter crap.

 

But to be fair belty' date=' are you saying in the hall of fame we should only have Hogan, The Rock and Austin, because having decent matches, not being huge draws, and holding the title imbetween their runs isn't worthy, as in Bret's case?[/quote']

 

This doesnt have anything to do with the Hall of Fame, nobody mentioned the HOF, this is who should be considered legends. As we all know, the HOF has alot of people who are FAR from legends. James Dudley? Come on!

 

Bret Hart deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, but he is not a legend, IMO. Not even close.

I didn't see Hogan being such a great "Draw" in WCW when they were dying on their arse even though it was in his contract that he MUST be in the main event of every PPV. I've seen some of these matches and Jesus they are awfull. To say Bret is not a legend is really just ridiculous.

even still by that argument should their only be 3 legends in US wrestling history, Rock, Hogan and Austin?

I didn't see Hogan being such a great "Draw" in WCW when they were dying on their arse even though it was in his contract that he MUST be in the main event of every PPV. I've seen some of these matches and Jesus they are awfull. To say Bret is not a legend is really just ridiculous.

 

Christ, what is your problem pal? I didnt say you had to agree, and I'm giving you my OPINION, just because I dont think your precious Bret Hart is worthy of legendary status, you fly off the handle, something you have regularly had a go at me for doing with Hogan.

 

Pot + Kettle = black huh?

 

Look, Hulk Hogans legendary status cant be questioned, whether you like it or not. He was the guy who put wrestling on the map, drew huge and made the WWF famous, we all know that whether we like it or not. When he first went to WCW, he drew once more, for a while, then his drawing power died out, he turned heel and drew for another 2 years along with other guys. Then his draw died again, he outstayed his welcome, became more of a political pain in the ass than ever and helped destroy WCW. I'm not denying it because its a fact, just as its a fact Bret was a crap draw and isnt even on Hulk Hogans level. Hell, he cant even carry Hogans jock if we're being honest here!

 

I dunno why you continually bring up Hogan in any thread you disagree with me on, obviously its all you have to try and get one over on me, yet it never works. Hogan isnt even relevant here. Its just that I said something about your favourite that you didnt like, so you childishly bash my favourite to try and save face, its sad.

 

My opinion, Bret Hart isnt a legend, not even close. Being the champion when the company is going down the toilet doesnt make you a legend, being a crap draw doesnt either.

 

Agree or disagree, thats upto you, but its MY OPINION and I'm entitled to it.

What has Hogan go to do with this thread? You disagree with what Beltmark says so you play in the Hogan card?

 

We all know Hogan is the biggest draw ever.

Bring back Hogan and Bret, and put them on the same show. Would Bret get a big pop anywhere but Canada? No. Would Hogan get a huge pop, even though he was around at Backlash? Yes.

 

The fact is Hogan is 10x better than Bret.

Edited May 17, 200519 yr by Jack

even still by that argument should their only be 3 legends in US wrestling history' date=' Rock, Hogan and Austin?[/quote']

 

No, there are many other legends, guys like Piper, Undertaker (possibly), Flair, Hogan, Randy Savage (possibly), Ultimate Warrior (flash in the pan, but still a legendary guy, probably more well known for his few years than Bret for his entire career), Dusty Rhodes, Jerry Lawler, Bob Backlund, Superstar Billy Graham, Lou Thesz, Buddy Rogers...

 

We're talking guys who put wrestling on the map during their era's, not caretaker guys who hold the belt warm until the next big thing arrives.

 

Bret Hart was what HHH is now. The guy who they keep sticking the belt on who is somewhat stable, but who wont ever be the man, the draw, the big name guy.

No, there are many other legends, guys like Piper, Undertaker (possibly), Flair, Hogan, Randy Savage (possibly), Ultimate Warrior (flash in the pan, but still a legendary guy, probably more well known for his few years than Bret for his entire career), Dusty Rhodes, Jerry Lawler, Bob Backlund, Superstar Billy Graham, Lou Thesz, Buddy Rogers...

 

We're talking guys who put wrestling on the map during their era's, not caretaker guys who hold the belt warm until the next big thing arrives.

 

Bret Hart was what HHH is now. The guy who they keep sticking the belt on who is somewhat stable, but who wont ever be the man, the draw, the big name guy.

 

I'd just like to add Sting to that list if you don't mind Belty. I'll go back and sit in the corner now.

What has Hogan go to do with this thread? You disagree with what Beltmark says so you play in the Hogan card?

 

We all know Hogan is the biggest draw ever.

Bring back Hogan and Bret, and put them on the same show. Would Bret get a big pop anywhere but Canada? No. Would Hogan get a huge pop, even though he was around at Backlash? Yes.

 

The fact is Hogan is 10x better than Bret.

 

So Bret wouldn't get a pop if he walked out on Raw next week? Is that what you really think?

 

I just figured I'd get the Hogan thing going as Belty can't post without referencing the Yellow one at least once. IMO.

 

Bret once got the biggest Wrestling Deal ever from WCW, which was something like 9m in 1997, which was more than *ahem there highest paid wrester* at the time. So therefore Bret was a draw, or why so much money?

Eh? Eh? :evil

Becouse the name value.....taking away the biggest name in the WWF at the time?

Becouse the name value.....taking away the biggest name in the WWF at the time?

 

Indeed, let's be honest, once they signed Bret, they didn't know what to do with him. So he was signed just to take him from WWF.

I just figured I'd get the Hogan thing going as Belty can't post without referencing the Yellow one at least once. IMO.

 

Dont talk such crap. I never mentioned Hulk Hogan, YOU did, and you did so because as always when you get flustered at something I say, you (as Jack said) play the Hogan card, for whatever reason.

 

Bret once got the biggest Wrestling Deal ever from WCW, which was something like 9m in 1997, which was more than *ahem there highest paid wrester* at the time. So therefore Bret was a draw, or why so much money?

Eh? Eh? :evil

 

Believe me, Brets deal was not more than Hogans. Hogan was recieving $250,000 PER PPV, something like $125,000 PER Nitro, plus on top of that he got a cut of ALL PPV buyrates, live attendance (even from House Shows that he wasnt on) and merchandising. Hulk Hogan made more in one year than Brets whole 3 year deal was for.

 

And if you really think Hart got that large money deal from WCW because he was a big draw, your INSANE! He got it because WCW wanted all of the WWF's name stars, draws or not, in an attempts to cripple the WWF.

I agree with you belty, but come on that last paragraph sounds like Hogan himself said it. There ain't no way he was earning 125,000 per Nitro, or 250,000 per PPV, or else he'd be on about 30 million a year.

 

He did get cuts of buyrates and merchandise, and he'd earn between say 4-7 million a year, but lol it was nowhere near as much as you said it.

I agree with you belty, but come on that last paragraph sounds like Hogan himself said it. There ain't no way he was earning 125,000 per Nitro, or 250,000 per PPV, or else he'd be on about 30 million a year.

 

He did get cuts of buyrates and merchandise, and he'd earn between say 4-7 million a year, but lol it was nowhere near as much as you said it.

 

Bischoff said, on off the record "Hulk Hogan was earning anywhere from $125,000 - $250,000 for each Nitro and PPV appearance."

 

You have to remember, when Hogan was ranked on the rich list in 1999, he was worth over $400 MILLION dollars! You dont make up that kind of money without being a huge earner. Sure, he outside projects made him a ton of cash, and his money was making him money, but $30 million per year isnt too hard to believe, IMO, when you consider all the pots Hogan had his hand in while in WCW.