The Great American Bash Discussion Thread - 22nd July 2007

[Guest Chriscare]

I must have much higher expectations than everybody else, because that PPV was sh*t!

 

The main event had a great build, average content and a messy ending. Jeff vs Umaga was good. Punk vs Nitro was awful. Hardy vs MVP was boring. Womens match was same old same old and the Candice segment was embarassing. Cruiserweights have no business being on TV, never have and never will. They are pathetic, their style is annoying and crap and to top it off you have the ugliest, biggest headed midget in the world holding the title of the division. Scrap it NOW! World title match was awful. Sandman vs Carlito was pointless.

 

The entire PPV from top to bottom was a load of crap, and I dont care what the pro-Cena crowd say, as obviously THEY are brainwashed into thinking he can do no wrong when tonight proved he can, and does. The match was the pits.

 

When Cena is on, he is great. He has proven he can have fantastic matches and does so more often than not, but please people for Christ sake please stop being so God damned bias and admit that when he stinks out the joint, he stinks out the joint! The match was CRAP!

 

Oh, and Orton vs Dusty was stupid. Rhodes didnt even bleed, in a bullrope match! Whats up with that?

 

 

Yea, i think your expectations were too high, the card looked terrible on paper. The matches were as good as they were gonna be with the people involved, only dissapointing one was Matt vs MVP

[Guest bigmatt]

I wouldnt go as far as beltmark but I was slightly dissapointed.I didnt find the Hardy v M.V.P match as bad as most people.The match was decent both are good workers there was some good points,I thought it was one of the better matches of the night.Im looking forward to a long feud between these two.

 

Sandmam/carlito was awful.So short so little action and no cane action in a cane match!!.

 

The cruiserwight match was o.k.As said earlier Michael Cole saying anyone under the weight can enter immediately told me someone else was coming in to the match.I thought they might have super crazy come out nearly win it but getting stopped by mr kennedy.But as soon as hornswoggle did his little run across the ring before the bell the end was predictable.

 

The womens match was o.k just nothing worth watching in the womens ranks at the minute(wrestling wise :))

 

The bullrope match was very poor i thought the idea of the bullrope stipulation in the first place was to cover up Dusty's limitations to allow a decent long match.Where dusty can just beat Randy instead of wrestling him with randy just scraping the win.

 

The ECW match was poor and a letdown no one in the crowd was interested which wasnt helped by the wrestlers in the ring.The ending summed up the match,dissapointing.

 

Hardy v Umaga was surprising teasing a Jeff victory just enough to wake up umaga into stepping up a gear.Good match both worked well and they seemed to have some chemistry.

 

World heavyweight title match was o.k.Not much was expected before the match with the quick setup and no momentum.Khali did what was expected of him Kane and batista worked o.k to put a match together.At least it was short and to the point.

 

The main event was o.k Cena worked quite well and did his best to add a little interest to the match.Lashley did o.k.There was no epic unstoppable force meets immovable object spots which was good and it wasnt as drawn out as i expected.Decent match worth a watch

[Guest Dave7g]

The main event was ok in the sense of "Please lose Cena", so it was interesting in that way. Would I ever want to see the match ever again?

 

Hell no. Cena overcomes the odds again, and Lashley looks like a p***y. Matt Hardy took a bump hundreds of times harder than that FU (which is a terrible move anyway) and still kicked out.

[Guest Twig]

I liked the Cena vs Lashley match more then I thought but I did feel that Lashley was trying to do his amature stuff at too high a pace to start the match and made it look really sloppy, I am also confused at why a weak FU from the top (it looked more impactful from the ground then it did from the top!) was enough to finish Lashley when everyone else all night was able to kick out of superplex's which delivers more force

Well the FU in general lacks very much impact, and he was probably much more careful with Lash going off the top, and so it ended up looking even weaker. But it's still an over finisher, and when he hits it you know the match is over.

 

Cena actually came off as a legitimate underdog and Lashley was the big powerhouse just killing him. That's how they should be booked at all times. Cena sells better, Lashley attacks better, so keep it like that.

Yeah, wow. Who would've thought that John would be comfortable in the role of the underdog? Good call by the booking team, there. That's surely the way to get him over. The match didn't fit with the build though, which I'm astonished people thought was done well. Why would you have numerous segments in which different wrestlers analyzed the two guys only to have each one determine that they were practically the same wrestler, when the match itself had Cena gettin his ass kicked the whole time? Explain that one to me and I'll give you a good argument for why TNA doesn't suck. :good222:

[Guest Nemesis Enforcer]

Well the FU in general lacks very much impact, and he was probably much more careful with Lash going off the top, and so it ended up looking even weaker. But it's still an over finisher, and when he hits it you know the match is over.

If all night (and for as long as I can remember) people had not been kicking out after top rope moves such as superplex's then fair enough a top rope FU would be a good finish, but as over as the FU is as a finisher, just how weak it came off as spoiled the ending imo. Lashley had kicked out of an FU (although the cover didn't come right away) already and that one looked much more painful and match finishing then the top rope version did

 

The top rope FU would have been spectacular if it did come off right, but imo anyway, it didn't

[Guest Twig]

If all night (and for as long as I can remember) people had not been kicking out after top rope moves such as superplex's then fair enough a top rope FU would be a good finish, but as over as the FU is as a finisher, just how weak it came off as spoiled the ending imo. Lashley had kicked out of an FU (although the cover didn't come right away) already and that one looked much more painful and match finishing then the top rope version did

 

The top rope FU would have been spectacular if it did come off right, but imo anyway, it didn't

 

I'm not too bothered about the superplexes, those never put anybody down, really. The thing for me is that I would've been more impressed had Cena not already hit an FU off the stage/machienery/whatever, to the outside of the ring, and especially off the top of a ladder through a table.

 

But yeah, suffice it to say that the FU is just a poor move in general.

[Guest Slim Jim]

Pretty good PPV. Highlights being Matt vs MVP, Hornswoggle as Cruiserweight Champ (knew it was going to happen as soon as he appeared at the beginning but still made me happy), Dusty's brilliant promo, Jeff vs Umaga, and a surprisingly enjoyable main event.

 

I wouldn't want to see a rematch of Cena/Lashley, but the brilliant booking of the build and match made it much better than I expected.

[Guest Telf]

The WWE incarnation of the Great American Bash has historically been one of the worst PPV's of the year, but i can honestly say that this was perhaps the best of 2007 thus far

 

Hardy and MVP could have been the sleeper, but didn't turn out to be. An average performance by both but acted as a good opener

 

Cruiserweight invitational was relatively enjoyable. Many people will bitch and moan about the "credibility" of the cruiserweight title now that it's in the hands of Hornswaggle; but let be honest, it hasn't really ever held that much prestige. Helms did a great job as champion but since he lost it at NWO, it's been down hill since then, and that's no disrespect to Chavo

 

Sandman and Carlito was ok, but it was never going to be anymore than that. I think having Sandman appear on Raw is a good filler, but he shouldn't be on PPV's when guys like Kennedy, Finlay and Booker aren't

 

I'll give credit where it's due, and Candice has really come on leaps and bounds in the ring. Now she's by no means anywhere near Trish Stratus, but she's improved tenfold. A lot of people find the Ron Simmons gimmick tiresome, but i for one still crack up everytime he does it

 

Umaga and Hardy was absolutely fantastic. Jeff did a superb job in selling for the champ and both men kept an excellent pace. The spinning side slam from Umaga was brutal and the finish was booked extremely well as if Umaga was mightly pissed at being hit with the Swanton. If there's one guy on the Raw roster that can restore some credibility in the IC title the way MVP has done with the US title on Smackdown, it's Umaga

 

Nitro/Morrison vs Punk was decent for what it was. I never expected Punk to beat the champ after the gimmick change this past week. They need to be careful not to bury Punk within the main event scene - either give him the title or get him out

 

Bullrope match could possibly have been given a bit more time to get Orton over a little more. Despite that, the match was enjoyable

 

WHC match was never going to be pretty, but for what it was worth, it worked out fairly well. I never thought for a second that there would be anything other than Khali retaining, but there was certainly moments there where i thought either Kane or Tista would pick up the win

 

Looks like battle of the Kings at Summerslam. I'm not quite at the stage of creamage, but definately intense salivation in anticipation of the return of The Game. With him back, the extensive amount main event talent on Raw can keep Cena busy for a while

 

Speaking of main event talent on Raw, Bobby Lashley has solidified his spot right up there; whilst Cena proves once again that there aren't many other out there who can deliver to such a high standard on PPV. Like it or not, WWE promote a main event better than anyone else. On paper, i wasn't really looking forward to this one too much, but a great job was done on Raw this past week, including the GAB video packages, to get me pumped - it definately had that big fight feel

 

The match itself told a great story that played on the speed, strength etc in which it was booked upon. Awesome near finishes and the actual finish was something we haven't really seen before. However, to me anyway, it came a bit out of the blue was not really that much build, bar the spear

 

Overall, a fantastic PPV and probably the best that WWE have put out this year, including Wrestlemania

[Guest Rog]

Hornswoggle CW champ, a Pole match. Has Russo been offering WWE booking advice?

 

Anywho. Good PPV, but a little dissapointing in areas. Namely the Bullrope match, which was fun. But it shouldnt have been fun, it should have been a massacre.

 

Hardy/MVP was good, but at times Matt looked clueless at what to do next. Still though MVP winning clean was great.

 

 

Hardy/Umaga? Match of the night for me. Umaga for the first time for me looked like a true killer heel. And Hardy being destroyed towards the end, with the crowd being frantic, was fantastic.

 

3 way for the world title was enjoyable for what it was. 3 behemoths colliding, and now that Khali is still champ leaves intruige for where the title picture moves next.

 

Cena/Lashley. Without a doubt Cenas best PPV main event to date. No shortcuts, no gimmicks, no fricken superman comeback and he wasnt totally carried. But Lashley was the one who left the impression for me. The series where he dominated Cena with amateur moves was surreal, and going for a pin after a shove? Brilliant.

 

All in all a good PPV. Wasnt expecting to be blown away, and wasnt, but twas enjoyable.

[Naitch 207]

Good show, even better than I was expecting. MVP-Hardy wasn't as good as their Smackdown match but it was still decent, I liked JBL building up the Yakuza Kick thing throughout the match as MVP’s 'lights out' move but he really, really, really, really needs to drop that finish of his, it’s crappily Novatastic and is the only bad thing about him. Cruiserweight match was a fun little match. Something else happened during it, I can't quite remember what…oh yeah:

 

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6622/11hornswoggleov1.jpg

 

This is a new dawn for the WWE. I was thinking they should just scrap the Cruiserweight Title. I changed my mind. Rey Mysterio, Chavo Guerrero, Jushin Liger, Ultimo Dragon, Chris Jericho, Jamie Noble boy, Matt Hardy, Dean Malenko, Dean Malenko can you hear me? Your boys took a hell of a beating, a hell of a beating. We were dancing jigs in Ireland and dining heartily on potatoes and Guinness when Hornswoggle took the gold home. Greatest title win since the legendary victory of King Booker against that dastardly Rey Mysterio last year.

 

Carlito-Sandman and the Womens Title match were there, I guess. Liked the finish to the Cane match, it was dastardly heelsome. I was trying to think of a Jeff Hardy singles match that I liked more than that Umaga match he had but I honestly can’t. Jeff Hardy smells like poop but man he has some fantastic chemistry with Umaga and this was probably my favourite match of the night. The nearfall after the Swanton was great then made all the better by Umaga just kinda going ‘screw this **** bitch, we end this now’, whack, whack, whack, lights out in the shitehouse. Fun match from start to finish, Umaga is the best Samoan on TV, the best big man on TV and just overall one of the most fun wrestlers to watch right now. I liked Armando a lot but I do like the whole dynamic of Umaga on his own as the loose cannon, ass kicking Samoan who doesn’t have a handler to reel him in when he gets out of control. He needed to be brought back up after being stuck in the blackhole of the Lashley-Vince feud and the squashes of Santino and the Jeff match have done just that.

 

Candice Michelle got a bigger reaction than CM Punk and her match had more heat than his dull one. He always gets an initial ok pop (not a 1998 Steve Austin pop like some people would have you believe) but he absolutely loses the people during the match because he has absolutely zero idea how to work a crowd. I think wrestling in front of a few hundred smarks in a small building in ROH made him look like a big fish in a small pond but coming to the big leagues in front of several thousand has really exposed him a lot. He has little or no in ring charisma and it takes more than going ‘ARRRRRRRRRRGGHHHHH’ and ‘COME ON’ to work a crowd. He just ran through the motions in that match with his crappy Diet KENTA offense and the crowd sat on their hands throughout. I was always on the fence with CM Punk, never thought he was anywhere near as good as people made out, laughed when some proclaimed him the saviour of wrestling, his stint in WWE has done nothing to convince me of what people see in him that makes him so great. He will never ever ever ever, not in a million years ever be a major league star in wrestling.

 

Dusty promo was fun and the video package building up the match was tremendous (as were the Cena and Lashley ones), I would have liked them to have put it on Raw last week but whatever. It just showed how far ahead of all the other promotions WWE has always been in terms of production and presentation. TNA? You’re building a wrestling match, it isn’t a Fellini film. Even WCW in their prime was always secondary to WWE in that regard. WWE is just so slick and professional. Bullrope match started off really fun with the 89 year old Dusty Rhodes showing people how to work a crowd but it ended rather abruptly to say the least when it was just getting going. Would have preferred Dusty bleeding but it still served it’s purpose. Triple Threat match I enjoyed way more than I should have and it was a million billion trillion times better than I was expecting. Yeah it wasn’t great or anything but it was what it was. Maybe Patterson laid it out or something but whatever, Worst Match of the Year? Wasn’t even the worst match of the night. Khali was bumping like he ate Spike Dudley’s soul or something.

 

Cena vs. Lashley turned out the way I expected. Laughed at the people expecting a suckfest, knew it’d be good, turned out that way.

 

Fun show, I’m an insomniac anyway so it was nice to have one of the few free TV PPVs to watch at 3 in the morning, I’m far too cheap to, God forbid, pay for one and this was a very good 3 hours spent.

Edited July 24, 2007 by Naitch

[Guest tazz13]

well one of the traditionally worst ppv's on the calander was a whole lot better this time...

 

mvp/hardy....good match, nice drama at the end, and i don't think matt is hurt by the result

 

CW title....decent spotfest, but its unfortunate people are conditioned to not care...not fond of another non-wrestler holding the title but the crowd popped so i guess it served its point

 

sandman/carlito....has anyone else noticed that sandman has stopped drinking beer during his entrance? its hurt his pop a bit, but he is still really over....not a bad match, but they could have at least used the stipulation

 

candice/melina....not bad....candice is showing signs...remember trish couldn't talk or wrestle when she started either

 

IC title....very good match...umaga is pretty underrated and jeff plays a great underdog so it worked well

 

punk/morrison....technically good, but i wasn't really feeling it....i'm not big on morrison as champ

 

bullrope match....a bit of a letdown since the dream never bled and it seemed to end just as it was getting started

 

world title....well i was expecting brutally bad, but it was better than it had any right to be....not really any major blown spots and it kept me interested so what the hell i will give khali a chance as champion

 

wwe title...really good match as always for cena on PPV....anti-cena people please go away

 

overall a pretty entertaining ppv

[Guest the HiTman]

Umaga - Hardy was MOTY so far for me. My kind of match. Awesome.

[Guest Ed_666]

I thought the PPV was pretty good, I was surprised that the bullrope match was so short, and the ending to the Carlito match was a nice surprise.

 

The only thing I thought was a bit silly was wasting all that build-up on Cena v Lashley, with all the wrestlers coming on saying who'd win etc, and then blowing it all off on one match, seems a bit of a waste when it could have been the biggest fued of the year.

 

Ed

[Guest Pile Driver]

Great American Bash Review 2007

 

Match 1: MVP defeated Matt Hardy to retain U.S Title. : Interspersed with some decent Hardy offense (including a crowd-pleasing plancha), MVP gets the better of the opening few minutes with predominantly technical action working on Matt’s arm. Some back & forth action then ends in a 2 count for the champ following a nice superplex. But in then attempting a top-rope back superplex, MVP falls victim to a 2 count himself following a Hardy counter & Matt then gets the same result twice more with a huge middle-rope bulldog & middle-rope legdrop. The pattern continues with a side-effect, but MVP gets yet another near-fall with a move I have never seen before & don’t even know how to explain (sorry). After even more 2 counts & counters, MVP hits his big boot & follows up with a messy playmaker (they played it out as if Matt was unconscious from the boot) for the victory at the 13 minute mark. Very good opener that included a bit of everything & was entertaining in amongst its many 2 counts. In fact, the bout probably needed an extra 2 minutes to allow a little more time to take it all in. I also would have liked to have seen even more byplay between the 2, but that is being picky, as this was more than solid & entertaining. I’d personally love to see a longer rematch. ***

 

Match 2: Hornswoggle beat Chavo Guerrero, Jimmy Wang Yang, Shannon Moore, Funaki and Jamie Noble to win the CW Title. Chavo is removed from the ring immediately as the other 4 do their fast-paced & high-flying thing. It’s the usual stuff with all sorts of action happening all over the place until someone attempts a pinfall only to be thwarted by another entrant. The action is almost perfectly spread evenly between all 5 wrestlers with all men impressing. Yang then hits his gorgeous moonsault, but then falls victim to a 3 man superplex that leaves all of them lying. This results in Hornswoggle entering the bout & hitting a top-rope frog (tadpole) splash on Noble for the victory at the 7 minute mark. To make it a little more official, the little fella had run across the ring at the beginning of the bout to cryptically signify he was an entrant. Very good multi-man cruiserweight bout that was mid-late 90’s WCW style for the most part. The change to Noble’s booking was apparent here as there was sufficient logic in amongst all the spots. Meanwhile, I was very impressed with the equality of offense, as well as the efficiency of all performers. So fun that even the ridiculous result didn’t bother me! ** 1/2

 

Match 3: Carlito defeated Sandman in a SINGAPORE CANE MATCH OF DOOOOOM!. Sandman’s cane is placed on top of a ringside pole in this bout that begins immediately when Carlito spits his apple into his opponent’s face. Carlito acclimatized surprisingly well to what was pretty much a brawl right from the start. The heel brought the intensity on the night & threw in a few of his own moves (mainly dropkick related) at just the right times. Following a miss of one of those moves, a springboard back elbow, Sandman climbs the pole to retrieve the cane. But he misses with his swipe at the afro & Carlito swiftly hits the back-cracker for the pinfall victory at the 6 minute mark. This was clearly a filler bout, but it was actually better than I expected due to Carlito’s performance. Still nothing special & I think we were all a little disappointed that at least one cane shot didn’t connect… * 1/2

 

Match 4: Candice Michelle beat Melina to retain Women's Title. The 2 ladies head straight for the mat where Melina gets the better of the technical wrestling, but Candice more than holds her own with some nicely rehearsed counters. The heel gets well on top following a powerful shot to the champ’s mid-section with her knees. The resultant arm work by Melina doesn’t last long though as Candice fights back to get successive 2 counts with a discus clothesline & then a top-rope cross body block. Melina then gets a near-fall of her own, but Candice finishes things off shortly after at the 6 minute mark with a standing bulldog. Solid women’s bout where the rehearsed counters & pinfall attempts played out well enough, if sometimes a little un-naturally. **

 

Match 5: Umaga defeated Jeff Hardy to retain IC Title. Jeff attempts to take things to the champ to kick things off, but a Samoan Drop leads to a few successive minutes of Umaga dominance. A resthold is involved in there to get the crowd involved, but it dragged on a little too long for my liking. A failed bodyslam attempt by Jeff leads to him being the victim of 2 sit-down splashes, but the 3rd hits nothing but knee as the challenger heads to the top-rope. Umaga catches him though and hits a huge & impressive spinning slam. It only gains a 2 count though & when Umaga misses a headbutt from the ropes, the door is open for Jeff to mount some offense & the crowd to go crazy. And what exciting offense it was too. He almost wins by countout after an over the top-rope cross body, and then he gets 2 counts with a low dropkick, a whisper in the wind & a swanton! But a twist of fate is countered into a superkick, a butt charge & then a rag-doll of a Samoan spike for the victory at the 11 minute mark. Take away a minute of Umaga’s boring resthold offense early on & this match would have been markedly better. But at the end of the day, these 2 worked too hard not to be entertained by it all. And the electric crowd really turned this bout into an exciting affair. *** 1/4

 

Match 6: John Morrison defeated CM Punk to retain ECW World Title. Following some decent technical wrestling, the 2 wisely move things along to get the crowd involved. Despite some nice Punk variation, they remain rather silent until some Morrison gymnastics following a monkey flip. Some ringside action allows the heel to gain control & a resthold is then applied. Punk answers the cheers of the crowd with some 2 counts from successive clotheslines & kicks. The 2 then trade near-falls with a series of rollups, after which Punk goes even closer with a Shining Wizard. The champ threatens to walk out at this point (to get heel heat), but Punk throws him back in the ring. Unfortunately, an attempted springboard maneuver by CM is countered by a messy kick for the pinfall victory to Morrison at the 8 minute mark. This was a difficult match for these 2 to pull off as they had to get the crowd involved, but didn’t have a great deal of time to do so. They partially got the job done here, but something still was not quite right, despite the match being rather solid. In isolation, this did show the potential of the 2 men, but it is now time to deliver on that. Hopefully, they get another chance to do so & I would personally prefer them to have that opportunity under Extreme Rules! ***

 

Match 7: Randy Orton beat Dusty Rhodes in a BULLROPE MATCH OF DOOOOOM! To some crowd taunting, Randy is at first reluctant to be tied to the rope. When he finally is, Dusty entertainingly uses his experience in the match type to embarrass the youngster much to the crowd’s delight. Orton responds with a bell-shot to the knee of the veteran which earns good heel heat from the audience as Randy heads to headlock city. The 2 then battle it out with fists & elbows before Orton simply hits Rhodes with a bell-shot to the head for the victory at the 6 minute mark. Cody Rhodes makes the save from the usual Orton attack afterwards. Well I suppose the bout was realistic, but no matter what the expectations, this would still have to be viewed as a little disappointing. **

 

Match 8: The Great Khali defeated Kane and Batista to retain Smackdown World Title. Khali continues his run of holding the title upside-down before the beginning of this bout that sees the 2 faces immediately team up to attack the champ. But it’s all to no avail as Khali handles them both rather easily, before clearing the ring of Kane & then applying a resthold to Batista. A chokeslam to both men then sees the champ (pardon the pun) stand tall, but when the action heads to ringside, the opportunistic faces team up to send the Indian through an announce table. Batista & Kane then battle it out in the ring with better offense than what they put together last Friday night, until Batista hits an impressive bodyslam for a 2 count & then Kane gets the same result with a top-rope clothesline. The Big Red Machine then hits a chokeslam on a returning Khali, but the Animal makes the save & then clears Kane from the ring. He then hits Khali with a spine-buster, but Kane returns the favor by making the save & then follows up with a chokeslam for a 2 count. Batista then hits his finisher, the Batista Bomb, on Kane, but Khali makes the save. He then clears the ring of Batista & follows up with his double handed choke bomb for the victory at the 10 minute mark. As with most big man matches, this was a tough one to rate, but was definitely better than expected. ** 3/4

 

Match 9: John Cena beat Bobby Lashley to retain Raw World Title. Lashley enters the ring to new Limp Bizkit-like vocals accompanying his entrance theme, as Cena gets a more favorable reaction upon arrival. Lashley predictably wins the opening battle of strengths & then shows his greater amateur wrestling prowess as well. Some involving back & forth action then follows, with Cena using his greater smarts/experience to get in some offense in amongst some Lashley suplexes. Cena gets a 2 count with a top-rope legdrop variation , but the challenger regains control with an interesting modified gut-buster. Cena then escapes a resthold & connects with his 5 knuckle shuffle. But Lashley counters an F-U attempt into a powerslam for a 2 count & then hits his torture rack/backbreaker combination to set up his running powerslam. But Cena counters out of nowhere with an F-U, although he doesn’t have the energy to score the pinfall. Lashley then hits a clothesline & sets up for a spear, but Cena counters successfully into the STF-U, which Lashley takes a good minute to escape from to the raptures of the crowd. The challenger then hits a spear from out of nowhere, but Cena excitingly lifts his shoulder off the mat at a count of 2.9, as the crowd get right behind the champ. Lashley then looks to set up a superplex, but Cena counters with a super F-U from the top-rope to earn the victory at the 15 minute mark. Terrific main-event that was booked to near perfection in the allocated timeframe. I was surprised at how well the 2 meshed with each other in the ring & that was partially due to some good byplay at the beginning of the bout that set it all up. Lashley stepped up here & showed why he has so much potential, while Cena did the same in simply adapting his own style to yet another different type of opponent. Good stuff & match of the night. *** 3/4

Edited August 24, 2007 by Pile Driver