eetimes.com

When Microsoft Corp. announced a mammoth global recall of its Xbox 360 a year ago, the software giant never disclosed the exact source of the game console's heat problem that led to the fiasco.

 

Now, in an unlikely venue at Design Automation Conference here, Bryan Lewis, research vice president and chief analyst at Gartner, disclosed that the problem started in a graphic chip. Lewis offered this offhand revelation while discussing the changing ASIC and ASSP landscape for his DAC audience.

 

The Xbox 360 recall a year ago happened because "Microsoft wanted to avoid an ASIC vendor," said Lewis. Microsoft designed the graphic chip on its own, cut a traditional ASIC vendor out of the process and went straight to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. Ltd., he explained.

 

But in the end, by going cheap--hoping to save tens of millions of dollars in ASIC design costs, Microsoft ended up paying more than $1 billion for its Xbox 360 recall.

 

To fix the problem, Microsoft went back to an unnamed ASIC vendor based in the United States and redesigned the chip, Lewis added. (Based on a previous report, the ASIC vendor is most likely the former ATI Technologies, now part of AMD.)

 

Asked the moral of the story, Lewis said: "Had Microsoft left the graphics processor design to an ASIC vendor in the first place, would they have been able to avoid this problem?

 

"Probably. The ASIC vendor could have been able to design a graphics processor that dissipates much less power."

 

During Microsoft's conference call with analysts in July 2007, Robbie Bach, head of Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices division, withheld details of the Xbox 360 problem, other than calling it a "design issue." When pressed by an analyst if it was caused by Xbox production or assembly, Microsoft's Bach said at that time, "No."

 

He added: "Our partners are doing good work." Rather, "the challenge" was created by "Microsoft-initiated design,"Bach said.

 

Although some system companies have been experimenting with direct links to foundries by cutting out the ASIC design houses, the death of ASICs may have been greatly exaggerated. More accurately, "many ASSP companies are designing ASICs for high volume customers," Gartner's Lewis said. The "ASIC market is far from dead, but it trails the ASSP market," he said.

 

Lewis cited Nokia, the world's largest handset vendor, which has stopped designing its own ASICs. It recently opened up its IC sourcing to various chip vendors beyond usual suspects such as Texas Instruments and STMicroelectronics.

 

"System OEMs have no business designing ASICs any longer," said Lewis. The reality is that system companies are finding it hard to do enough ASIC designs to keep in-house design teams employed.

 

When it was pointed out that Microsoft still has its own semiconductor technology group that is still designing various chips, Lewis responded, "How many ASICs per year does Microsoft design? Not many" compared to experienced ASIC/ASSIP vendors.

 

Microsoft did not respond to requests to comment on this story.

Playstation 3 > 360

 

To expand, the moral of the story is, dont pay for the cheaper crap when it could end up costing you, as it did here.

Edited June 12, 200816 yr by Rebekah

Playstation 3 > 360

 

Not even remotley true.

 

I heart my 360.

 

Although I have a relatively new edition so there's not much chance of red rings of doom. I've had PS1 on launch day, PS2 on launch day because they were worth getting, they were must have machines. The PS3 is not worth having yet, and won't be for a long time.

Playstation 3 > 360

 

 

Rubbish,the PS3 has no where near the quality of games that the 360 does,in time it might but right now,not even close.

Not even remotley true.

 

The PS3 is not worth having yet, and won't be for a long time.

 

 

 

QFT.

Edited June 12, 200816 yr by King

Playstation 3 > 360

 

To expand, the moral of the story is, dont pay for the cheaper crap when it could end up costing you, as it did here.

 

The old 360's that failed were paid for by Microsoft in full, it didn't cost a thing.

The old 360's that failed were paid for by Microsoft in full, it didn't cost a thing.

 

All that it'll cost ye' is time! My 360 is in Microsoft land at the moment being treated for the red rings of death. Should be back in a week or two. After seeing the evil rings I phoned up, arranged a date and basically put just the console (nothing else, not even the hard drive) into a box and they came and picked it up. Didn't even cost me a stamp :xyx.

The PS3 has a natural disadvantage considering it came out much later than the 360 did. I don't understand why "360 has better games" is considered a valid arguent when it's near impossible for it not to have. If you want to talk about the depth of great exclusive games, look to the future instead. By the end of the year, which console will have better games? Give it three or four years and think about which will have the greater games. With the MGS, Final Fantasy and Gran Turismo series'. And then the fact that some shared games, such as GTA5, are almost definetly going to be PS3 exclusive in the future.

 

By Christmas 2008, the PS3 will sell more copies and that gap will get bigger and bigger until the next generation of consoles are out. The 360 had it's run on the top but the future does not look good for them.

There's a lot of games coming out for both consoles in the future, the 360 have release dates and the PS3 versions do not. Developers are already getting frustrated with it. Hence the insane waiting times for games such as Little Big Planet and Grand Turismo.

Having spent time on both I vastly prefer the PS3. But each to their own and all that.

 

Back to the OP, Im amazed that Microsoft could do something so stupid. But I guess the rush to get the 360 out before the PS3 didnt give them the time to fully test the replacement.

I've had both, and prefer 360 for the currently larger variety of games and the mighty XBox Live, I found the PS Network or whatever their online thing is called to be, quite honestly, a load of crap.

 

Once PS3 start releasing their exclusive games though, especially God of War 3, I might change my mind. On the other hand, 360 has their exclusives too, like BioShock 2, so its pretty much an even deal for me.

I went for a Wii instead of a PS3 when I was buying another console recently, I really can't justify a PS3 monster cash hole, for a handfull of games that aren't even out yet.

Ive been a avid game player since the age of 5 where I sat down infront of my PS1 and got owned in "Mickey Mouse Adventures" By a stupid barrel that kept on killing me...I swear that barrel went faster than the rest!! I swear!!!

 

But back on subject, I vastly prefer the 360, although I found the PS3 quite enjoyable to play, the game I played was..erm..damnit cant mind the name at the mo, but it had killer images, and there was one point when I fell off the bed in fright after seeing a monster out of nowhere.!

 

The 360 Red rings of Doom, concern me, because my little brothers 360 is on all the time, since bahgawd got the red rings of death ( sorry to hear mate ) Ive started turning it off more, but when the red rings of doom come, im sure my brother will learn his lesson!! :P

Playstation 3 > 360

 

I strongly suspect in the next year I will have traded my X360 for a PS3. I miss the Formula One games and if Getaway 3 comes out then my decision will be made.

Ive been a avid game player since the age of 5 where I sat down infront of my PS1 and got owned in "Mickey Mouse Adventures" By a stupid barrel that kept on killing me...I swear that barrel went faster than the rest!! I swear!!!

 

But back on subject, I vastly prefer the 360, although I found the PS3 quite enjoyable to play, the game I played was..erm..damnit cant mind the name at the mo, but it had killer images, and there was one point when I fell off the bed in fright after seeing a monster out of nowhere.!

 

The 360 Red rings of Doom, concern me, because my little brothers 360 is on all the time, since bahgawd got the red rings of death ( sorry to hear mate ) Ive started turning it off more, but when the red rings of doom come, im sure my brother will learn his lesson!! :P

 

I think the 3 red rings can be misguided. I get the three red rings when I start up the console, but I leave it for about 30 seconds, switch it off and then on again and they are gone. Been like that since October and have not had any problems since.

 

Anyhoo, on topic, I think its been said already - Xbox has the better of the games at the moment, but it has also had the advantage of time. I think the PS3 will outperform it eventually - but I don't want to be shelling out for the next big console just yet, so I will stick to the 360 - and just like Belty, Bioshock 2 is enough for me to stick with it!

I have a PS3 and whilst biased I'd say it's more promising than the 360.

 

I'd totally agree that at the moment the 360 has more & better titles to play. Yet having completed MGS4..I don't think any console game in the next two years will beat it. GTA4 got 10/10..that's complete bollocks as I have both and GTA4 is ridiculously boring. Metal Gear is easily holds the 10/10 status, no matter what any Xbox magazine might say.

That being said, I would not be willing to miss out on Final Fantasy's or the last Metal Gear Solid so therefore I payed the extra cost for the PS3.

 

The 360's future doesn't have the excitement that the PS3 portrays. I mean I personally don't give a toss about missing out on Gears Of War 2..yet plenty of Xbox fanboys will go to any lengths to try and prove that MGS4 is coming to 360. Quality over quantity for the long run.

Edited June 16, 200816 yr by JC

Playstation 3 > 360

 

To expand, the moral of the story is, dont pay for the cheaper crap when it could end up costing you, as it did here.

 

http://forums.sohh.com/images/smilies/smhrd3.gif

 

Noob?

 

Not even remotley true.

 

I heart my 360.

 

Although I have a relatively new edition so there's not much chance of red rings of doom. I've had PS1 on launch day, PS2 on launch day because they were worth getting, they were must have machines. The PS3 is not worth having yet, and won't be for a long time.

 

Co-Sign

Edited June 16, 200816 yr by Paul