Every forum I go to, every chatroom i visit - all the 'fans' say that WWE is dying.

 

Well is it?

 

Personally I think not. I think the business is just in a downward swing at the moment, and it will pick up in the next year or so.

 

Sure attendences and buyrates are down, the ratings aren't what they used to be etc. but i very much doubt that the WWE are in financial difficulties.

 

I am not a mark for WWE but i enjoy wrestling. I enjoy their product. But I also enjoy the TNA tapes i have got off ebay. I also enjoy New Japan especially Chris Benoit's matches from over there.

 

I just wish people would give WWE a break.

 

Any opinions?

Dying....no, wounded...yes. WWE defintily has its problems, but as a mark at heart, I do find some of the product enjoyable. I think the writing team needs t sit down and look at what they have in front of them and they need to realize that they can make it all work with the right stuff. Better stories (originality, for one) stop pushing people that noone cares about (Batista, Henry, etc). Example of this...did hear the crowd last night when batista came out and trashed Goldberg....DEAD silence. Noone cared. There never was any heat for Batista originally, and after his absence...noone cares at all now about him. This guy makes Goldberg look like he has an arsenal of moves. Why was HHH there? no explanation. Another problem is the writers seem to forget things...like Goldy almost getting run down last week...no mention this time. Now this whole 5 v 5 SS match...decnt idea, depending on who fills out the teams. So far, so good. So again, 50/50 show. Some good markout moments...Michaels superkick was devastating.

 

Now Smackdown has the same probs...50/50 delivery on entertainment. Vince has got to see that noone is interested in him as a wrestler. Hes good when used sparingly to come in and clean stuff up (cause if vinnie mac has to come in, theres gonna be a problem) But instad he fills the show with useless stories of him/steph/linda & who the hell wants to see him making out with the WWE's token MILF? But SD has a lot of positves...angle, cena ( apush they did right!) brock, and even taker is entertaining again. Guerrero is awesome, but that sewage truck was ridiculous and done before (beer, milk). But the squashing of good cw talents (spanky, london, etc) is taking away from there contributions of fun, fast paced, markout matches.

 

I could rant all day. Like i said, not dead, but hurt. The creative could change all this pretty easily by smarter bookings, storylines that make sense. Fueds we want to see. Maybe all this falling apart will do them some good, build back up from the bottom. Maybe if TNA starts to give them a run, they will be forced to liven it up due to some competition. I for one would mark out to that

Originally posted by ravenmark

Every forum I go to, every chatroom i visit - all the 'fans' say that WWE is dying.

 

Well is it?

 

Personally I think not. I think the business is just in a downward swing at the moment, and it will pick up in the next year or so.

 

Sure attendences and buyrates are down, the ratings aren't what they used to be etc. but i very much doubt that the WWE are in financial difficulties.

 

I am not a mark for WWE but i enjoy wrestling. I enjoy their product. But I also enjoy the TNA tapes i have got off ebay. I also enjoy New Japan especially Chris Benoit's matches from over there.

 

I just wish people would give WWE a break.

 

Any opinions?

 

we have rehashed this alot...ya business is down, but i certainly don't see them dying

Originally posted by the assasin

Vince has got to see that noone is interested in him as a wrestler. Hes good when used sparingly to come in and clean stuff up (cause if vinnie mac has to come in, theres gonna be a problem) But instad he fills the show with useless stories of him/steph/linda & who the hell wants to see him making out with the WWE's token MILF?

 

I haven't seen all of No Mercy yet, but so far (up to Show-Eddie), the Vince v Steph match seems to have at least joint biggest amount of heat (maybe Cena-Angle might have pipped it), and look how bad the actual match was.

 

Now if they get that much heat for a very bad (from a technical POV) match, then how can no-one want to see them.

 

People on here might not want to, but WWE fans as a whole rank Vince and Steph as two of the most important people on the show, regardless of whether they can wrestle or not.

 

Ed

Originally posted by Ed_666

People on here might not want to, but WWE fans as a whole rank Vince and Steph as two of the most important people on the show, regardless of whether they can wrestle or not.

 

Ed

 

If you look back to the Austin/McMahon angle Vince was always used to get heat onto a worker, Rock, Foley, Taker etc, and it worked well because Vince has a persona that people naturally want to hate and at the end of the day its the wrestlers who sell house show tickets and PPV buys, WWE two most important income sources.

 

The main problem people have with the McMahons is that thesedays the McMahons are now becoming the focal point themselves and to most peoples perspective limiting talent.

 

Oh to answer the original question WWE aren't on an Oldham style verge of death but if things do change and dropping business righted they'll will bei n serious danger of dieing in a few years.

One thing that WWE have in their favour compared to WCW is the fact that they're a public limited company. With WCW, it was an afterthought to the AOL Time Warner family, and were certainly expendable should their financial performance eat into Uncle Ted's bank account.

 

When a public limited company is in finanical trouble, no matter what industry they are in, they can always issue more shares. And there are always people on the stockmarket who will buy lots of shares at a low price, with the intention to sell them high once the company turns things around.

 

I've got no doubts as to whether WWE is failing badly at entertaining. But WWE is it's own business, if they're losing money fast, the share price will drop, people will snap up lots of shares and there's a whole lot more money coming Vince's way. To quote Simon, trust me, I'm a Business student. John Cena can keep his Thuganomics, I'm the Doctor Of Microeconomics (the study of individual agents in an economy, eg- a person or a business).

 

Remember, another feature of being a public limited company is that you're vulnerable to takeovers. If the share price falls low enough, who's to say that the wrestling Roman Abrahmovic won't make the McMahons an offer they can't refuse for their majority stake in WWE?

I'll give it bout 5 mins b4 Singhy starts ranting bout WWE's death again:)

Originally posted by Russ

Remember, another feature of being a public limited company is that you're vulnerable to takeovers. If the share price falls low enough, who's to say that the wrestling Roman Abrahmovic won't make the McMahons an offer they can't refuse for their majority stake in WWE?

 

I don't think Bill Gates could make Vince McMahon an offer he couldn't refuse. He's already wealthy beyond all possibility of spending it. Why would he sell his family business that he's put his life into?

 

Although money is nice, there comes a point when more money doesn't mean anything to you. £20m is a lot, but if you have £800m, having £820m wouldn't mean anything.

 

Ed

:lol I was wondering how many posts it'd be until my name was mentioned. I've made my stance very clear:xyx

Originally posted by Rikidozan

I've made my stance very clear:xyx

 

Yes, we've heard a lot about your stance, but little about what it's based on other than cryptic remarks about "being like WCW".

 

Surely this thread is tailor-made for your "extensive" knowledge of the business?

 

Ed

Edited October 22, 200321 yr by Ed_666

Geez Ed, you're like a little child. I purposly held back from posting my thoughts on this topic, tis a sad shame your insecurities shine through every time you post.

Yes Ed you incredibley insecure when it comes to WWE you shud see a councellor:lol :lol

Originally posted by Rikidozan

Geez Ed, you're like a little child. I purposly held back from posting my thoughts on this topic, tis a sad shame your insecurities shine through every time you post.

 

Why did you purposely hold back? Surely with your knowledge of the business you could give us dozens of examples of what the WWE is/has done wrong, what they should have done, and why they're dying? Or perhaps it's because you'll make a fool of yourself again?

 

I'm not insecure. Insecure people claim they know more than they do, and insult people when asked to prove it.

 

I've given you chance to show your huge amount of knowledge time and time again, yet all you can do is hurl insults.

 

People are going to start thinking you aren't telling the truth. :P

 

Ed

You're a riot Ed, a pure riot. In case you hadn't somehow noticed, i've been here for over two years. You speak as if I only joined when you did. The forums members know who I am, what i'm like and what my knowledge of this industry and business is. You, on the other hand, have only displayed how much you think you know. They know and can see you're a brain-washed WWE mark, it's priceless how you speak to me as if i've only been watching WWE for, say, five years.

The truth is, i've already given countless examples of why WWE is slowly dying, but yet you're too brain-washed to except then and take them on. I could continue to make great, factually correct points until WWE actual dies, but you're not willing to accept them. That's a shame.

Ed, do you even know who the likes of Rikidozan, El Santo and Lou Thesz were, and what they did for the business. They sure did a hell of a lot more than Hogan, or Vince McMahon ever did.

Finally, i've never once insulted, sure, i've patronised you (and others), but that's only after making a great, factually-based point that they ignored. Have some self respect and pride Ed, and take a look at your ass-backwards views thru your rose-tinted glasses of WWE and your almighty hero, 'roided-up Vinne Mack:xyx

Originally posted by Russ

One thing that WWE have in their favour compared to WCW is the fact that they're a public limited company. With WCW, it was an afterthought to the AOL Time Warner family, and were certainly expendable should their financial performance eat into Uncle Ted's bank account.

 

When a public limited company is in finanical trouble, no matter what industry they are in, they can always issue more shares. And there are always people on the stockmarket who will buy lots of shares at a low price, with the intention to sell them high once the company turns things around.

 

I've got no doubts as to whether WWE is failing badly at entertaining. But WWE is it's own business, if they're losing money fast, the share price will drop, people will snap up lots of shares and there's a whole lot more money coming Vince's way. To quote Simon, trust me, I'm a Business student. John Cena can keep his Thuganomics, I'm the Doctor Of Microeconomics (the study of individual agents in an economy, eg- a person or a business).

 

Remember, another feature of being a public limited company is that you're vulnerable to takeovers. If the share price falls low enough, who's to say that the wrestling Roman Abrahmovic won't make the McMahons an offer they can't refuse for their majority stake in WWE?

 

exactly...i agree with that

 

and what is a riot is that neither riki nor ed are even remotely capable of being objective in the slightest

 

riki if the WWE was 1/10th as bad as you say it was, they woulda been history long ago

 

ed they aren't perfect...they do alot of idiotic things

 

awe well, it makes for an interesting forum anyways

Edited October 22, 200321 yr by tazz13

Originally posted by Rikidozan

You're a riot Ed, a pure riot. In case you hadn't somehow noticed, i've been here for over two years. You speak as if I only joined when you did. The forums members know who I am, what i'm like and what my knowledge of this industry and business is.

 

Well according to your info (at the side of your posts) you only joined in Jan 2002, which is less than two years, but I'll let you off.

 

Some forum numbers might know what you know, but why should I accept it just because you say it? How do I know you're not just bragging? You've certainly not shown any indication of having an in depth knowledge of the business.

 

Originally posted by Rikidozan

You, on the other hand, have only displayed how much you think you know. They know and can see you're a brain-washed WWE mark, it's priceless how you speak to me as if i've only been watching WWE for, say, five years.

 

What difference does it make how long you've been watching WWE? I could show someone No Mercy who's never seen WWE before, and they'd be able to tell Vince was really popular. Making statements like "no-one cares about Vince and Steph" would be stupid coming from someone who started watching WWE last month.

 

Originally posted by Rikidozan

The truth is, i've already given countless examples of why WWE is slowly dying, but yet you're too brain-washed to except then and take them on. I could continue to make great, factually correct points until WWE actual dies, but you're not willing to accept them. That's a shame.

 

Perhaps I've missed them all, since every time I ask you to quote one, you just claim you have already. All your "examples" are cryptic references to WCW (without explanation) or just very silly (no-one wants to see Vince).

 

Originally posted by Rikidozan

Ed, do you even know who the likes of Rikidozan, El Santo and Lou Thesz were, and what they did for the business. They sure did a hell of a lot more than Hogan, or Vince McMahon ever did.

 

In case you didn't know, there's a big difference between history and current affairs. Maybe you know all about wrestling in the 30's, but it's irrelevent to now. It's like someone with a degree in the History of the Roman Empire talking at length about the Itialian Prime Minister. Two different subjects.

 

Originally posted by Rikidozan

Finally, i've never once insulted, sure, i've patronised you (and others), but that's only after making a great, factually-based point that they ignored.

 

:lol are you actually being serious?

 

The other day you said that "the WWE is hurting in the worst way possible, and anyone who can't see that is an ass".

 

See, you've managed to make yourself a liar in one sentence!! Not only was it complete bollocks as far as being a "great factually-based point", you then insulted anyone who would disagree with you!!

 

If that's your example if the sort of facts you can spew out, I'm glad you don't try to give us your opinion on the WWE! :lol

 

Ed

Ed, i've been at this site for around two years;)

 

You, on the other hand, are an unproven WWE mark. I'm confident most other forum members would agree with me. I'm left baffled by your constant belief that everything within WWE is tickety-boo. It isn't. House show numbers are in the 2000-3000 region, PPV buys (you know what those are, don't you?) are way down and T.V numbers are pathetic for thr roster and resources they have. Lol, and the line about older wrestling being "irrelevant" is hilarious line, typical of the insecure mark who doesn't know about, so they cast it aside and think just because they don't know about it, it 'doesn't count'.

I find the Italian prime minister/Roman Empire to be an absolute hoot. Nonsense at it's finest. Yes, Rikidozan, Santo and Thesz are from a different era, but their legacy is still felt today industry-wide. But you won't know about that, because you're a WWE mark, whose been brain-washed to not watch, follow or accept anything outside of 'sports entertainment'.

 

Also, you didn't answer my question, do you know who Rikidozan, El Santo or Lou Thesz were?...actually, never mind bud, I already know the answer;) :lol

 

Finally, I suggest you read a copy of the TWO newsletter. Hey, you may even learn something about something outside of WWE:eek

Originally posted by Rikidozan

Ed, i've been at this site for around two years;)

 

Oh look, another of your "factual" comments turns out to be inaccurate! :P :lol

 

Originally posted by Rikidozan

You, on the other hand, are an unproven WWE mark. I'm confident most other forum members would agree with me.

 

Perhaps you should do a poll. Why is it that anyone with an open mind who doesn't think everything Vince does is ego driven, HHH is only on TV cause of Steph, or that the WWE is the worst thing ever is a WWE mark? Oh, and of course that's not an insult, cause you don't do them, right? :roll

 

Originally posted by Rikidozan

I'm left baffled by your constant belief that everything within WWE is tickety-boo. It isn't. House show numbers are in the 2000-3000 region, PPV buys (you know what those are, don't you?) are way down and T.V numbers are pathetic for thr roster and resources they have.

 

I'm left baffled by your constant inability to read my posts. I've never said everything is "tickety-boo" (who would use that phrase?), and I've admitted that attendances and ratings are down on what they were a few years ago. BUT, they're also well UP on what they were 10 years ago. So saying the WWE is dying is completely idiotic when they've been far worse off before, and now have no competition.

 

Originally posted by Rikidozan

Lol, and the line about older wrestling being "irrelevant" is hilarious line, typical of the insecure mark who doesn't know about, so they cast it aside and think just because they don't know about it, it 'doesn't count'.

 

Is insecure you're insult of the day? Just wondered. Older wrestlers might have changed the business, but they're not affecting what goes on now in the rings, how could they? They don't have any input, other than if someone uses their moves (Thesz press) etc.

 

Originally posted by Rikidozan

Yes, Rikidozan, Santo and Thesz are from a different era, but their legacy is still felt today industry-wide. But you won't know about that, because you're a WWE mark, whose been brain-washed to not watch, follow or accept anything outside of 'sports entertainment'.

 

Ok, lets assume I'm brain-washed and those three guys actually do have some effect on the industry today. Tell me what it is so I won't be brainwashed any more. Go on, I'm interested as to what effects they're still having.

 

Originally posted by Rikidozan

Also, you didn't answer my question, do you know who Rikidozan, El Santo or Lou Thesz were?...actually, never mind bud, I already know the answer

 

Go on then, what's the answer? See if you're right.

 

Ed

Originally posted by Rikidozan

Also, you didn't answer my question, do you know who Rikidozan, El Santo or Lou Thesz were?...actually, never mind bud, I already know the answer;) :lol

 

Originally posted by Ed_666

Go on then, what's the answer? See if you're right.

 

 

:lol

 

Best comback ever! - That little exchange has to go in this month's "forum highlights" bit of the newsletter!

Originally posted by Ed_666

Why is it that anyone with an open mind who doesn't think everything Vince does is ego driven, HHH is only on TV cause of Steph, or that the WWE is the worst thing ever is a WWE mark? Oh, and of course that's not an insult, cause you don't do them, right? :roll.

 

Ed

 

First off how many times have you accused some someone who has something negative to say about a McMahon, HHH or the WWE of being a "bitter smark" and if you asked most people here if your posts were "opened minded" or just completely biased towards WWE I pretty sure the result would a landside for the first option.

Yes Ed, i've mentioned the word 'insecure' twice, so it must be the word of the day:roll

 

Ed, how could you possibly know how long i've been coming here? You do know there's more to this site than the forums, right?

 

Boy you have a mixed-up mind Ed, you really have no clue about this business. By your own admission, you've only ever followed WWE. Do you even know that pro wrestling exists in Japan, Puerto Rico or Europe?

 

Feel free to ask around, and ask if i've ever blatantly and ruthelessly swore at someone. I never have. Like I stated before (and you naturally didn't acknowledge), I always make factually correct points first, and if someone is ignorant enough to ignore them, I tend to rant using patronising language.

 

As far as the three go...

 

Lou Thesz; carried the NWA and it's title for four decades; the NWA was the No.1 promotion in North America until the late 1970's, when Vince McMahon Jr. took his dad's promotion and over-took them. That would've never had happened if the NWA (which Thesz made No.1) was No.1 to begin with. Plus Thesz inspired the likes of Jim Ross (Sr. VP of talent for WWE) and numerous other WWE staffers.

Basically, Thesz was a major reason why pro wrestling did so well after WW II

 

El Santo; inspired just about every Luchadoore (Mexican wrestler) from Rey Jr. to Konnan. Santo pushed wrestling in Mexico to a new level, having a national public holiday dedicated to him, and being allowed to be barried in his mask (which is illegal normally).

 

Rikidozan; boy, I could write a book about this guy. Rikidozan did for Puroresu (Japanese pro wrestling) what Thesz did for the NWA; he formed the first ever Japanese promotion, and was the first ever truely international wrestling star. Pro Wrestling NOAH will run a Rikidozan memorial card in November to mark his death.