Wrestler Vs Wrestler debates (Warning long topic)

[The Icon]

Note this is an topic wereby I basically take 2 or sometimes more popular WWE stars past or present & pit tham against each other in several importnt catagories & decide a winner in each catagory. (& also decide an overall winner bassed on the winner of each catagory.)

 

Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero.

 

The Main Event

Never before has there being two champions who so deserved to have that accolade placed on their shoulders. Benoit & Guerrero have long deserved their respective title reigns & long may they last. If any two men ‘define’ the current WWE ‘attitude’ then it is these two. That attitude by the way is a return to an old school type of wrestling where the emphasis is more on wrestling skills than on talking ability or ‘looks’.

 

Right let’s get the ball rolling with the first category their finishing moves.

 

Finisher. Chris Benoit goes first then. Benoit has of course the crippler crossface which is not only the most dangerous looking submission in WWE today it is the best submission move period since the Sharpshooter & Camel clutch reigned supreme in WWE back in the early nineties. The thing that makes it stand out is the ability Chris has to hit it at any time anywhere. Most other submissions require the wrestles to have his opponent in a certain place usually down on the mat or standing behind the opponent. Not the crossface though it can be put on at anytime & is the best finishing move on raw right now. He also uses the Diving head butt as a finisher but that is so rare that it is not worth mentioning, really it is rather a set up move than a finisher.

 

Eddie also uses a submission finisher but he does not use it that often. The lasso from El Paso as he calls it is quite a good looking finisher, can’t compare to the Crossface mind you but good never the less. Primarily though Guerrero uses the Frog Splash. Not as strong as RVD’s Five Star nor as fancy looking as D’lo’s sky high it is never the less a great move. Top rope finishers are always a good way of bating the crowd & this move is no different it really gets the crowd going & looks the part as well all in all a good finisher.

 

While I like the Frog Splash I never the less could only ever declare one winner in this category the crossface, & therefore Chris Benoit wins here.

Benoit (1) Eddie (0)

 

 

Promo ability.

While not a requirement in being a WWE main event superstar (Just ask yokozuna for example) this category is never the less often (sadly) a deciding factor in a wrestler’s sustained push.

 

This is also Chris Benoit’s Achilles heel & the main reason, I believe, that his status as a true main eventer was put of for so long. While it is true that Benoit is no Foley on the Mic he is still not the worst either. His promos always make sense & he never wastes words either the worst that could be said is that he seems to lack the ability to emote during his promos. Still Benoit does his talking in the ring anyway & that is more than enough for me & evidently that is also, for now, enough for Vince & the bookers as well.

 

As for Mr Guerrero well this is a category in which he stands out. His promos are often shoot based, he talks about his real life, & he puts his full emotions into every word & sentence. If there was one minor glitch & there is I am afraid it is that the fake Latino accent is a tad borderline silly. He talked ‘normal’ in WCW so it’s not like the fans could not accept his real accent where he to use it. Heck they accepted Kane as a man who could suddenly talk non-stop after hardly a word for year’s so they can I am sure learn to accept Eddies real accent.

 

Accent aside though Eddie is the clear winner in this category.

 

Benoit (1) Guerrero (1)

 

Gimmick ah yes the one thing that can make or break a WWE wrestler, just ask Avatar for example, but not as important as it once was. These days most wrestlers play extensions of their own selves rather than play gimmick wrestlers.

 

Chris for one just plays himself more or less. If it could be said he has a gimmick it is the Gimmick of not having a Gimmick at all. It is a gimmick that he shares with at least half the Raw (& SD) locker room. Batista, Shawn Michaels, HHH, & Christian to name but four have the gimmick of not having a gimmick. (Mind you Christian sort of does now the Gimmick of being a faction leader but that’s another story.) Getting back to Chris he doesn’t need some half assed gimmick anyway gimmicks are reserved mostly for bland wrestlers anyway to help them get over*.

 

(*Mostly does not mean always)

 

Eddie meanwhile started off in WWE as a sort of womaniser who lusted after Victoria & Chyna among others. (Victoria was one of the women he appeared with when Chyna found him in the shower that time.) To be honest this Gimmick was a bit stereotypical & insulting although Guerrero made the most of it. Much, much better is his occasionally funny & often serious Lie, cheat & steal gimmick. Although that motto seems to have being dropped after the split with Chavo, now he just much like Benoit plays the serious down to business role. To be honest while I liked the comedy heel / face aspect of his character it does not suit a WWE champion & I am glad he dropped that part for now.

 

This category is one that could go either way but I think Eddie deserves it slightly more so he wins.

 

Benoit (1) Guerrero (2)

 

Move sets & Basic In ring Ability

A wrestler without a good move set is sort of like a pencil without a tip, completely pointless. (Feel free to groan now at that 100% intended pun.) Lucky then that these Two excel in this category isn’t it?

 

Benoit uses a variety of wear down holds, suplexes & the aforementioned diving headbutt. Regarding the Triplex I don’t rate it as high as Kurt’s but is has improved a lot since early days. As for the head butt there is no better diving head butt around Chris does this move to perfection. Eddie to uses suplexes & such moves to great effect indeed his Triplex is if anything superior to Chris’s. Both men are more than capable of carrying ‘ahem’ inferior opponents such as Bradshaw (I hope anyway) & Big Show & that is always the first sign of a perfect in ring wrestler. As for who can better carry a weak opponent & whom can best tell an in ring story well that’s a hard one… …but Chris gets my vote just.

 

Benoit (2) Guerrero (2)

 

The Bottom Line. Well I guess at two apiece this is officially a draw, which is a pity as it would be nice to declare a clear winner. The thing is though that these two wrestlers are so close to each other in every category that a draw is the only fair way to end this. Until next time Goodbye

[Guest Jack]

lol im gonna do one for triple h againgst benoit

 

Finisher:Triple H has a far better move

1-0 HHH

Promo Abilty: Benoit...decent promo..... no they dont work in the same sentence

2-0 HHH

Gimmick: I prfer HHs over Benoits because Benoit couldnt pull off a decent gimmick, that is why WWE stick him with a plain one

3-0 HHH

Move sets: I dont see anyhing special about Benoits moves but he has more moves whereas HHHs have more variation because he can do some mat stuff, but ill give it to Benoit

3-1 HHH

 

Final result HHH is better :P

[Guest Anime Otaku]

if you want a tie breaker on Benoit V Guerrero I'd say Benoit has a better look for a champ, note:i think Eddie is better looking (as a straight man's opinion :xyx ) but Benoit looks more imposing even though he is a bit shorter

[Guest Mr.R_Wolverine]

Nice thread kurtmark. I agree totally, can't wait for the next installment!

[Guest JC]

If you want a Head to Head, put Austin against Rock.

[Guest Boyo]

The tiebreaker should be: "Who does Boyo prefer?"...

 

And that guy is Guerrero.

 

Cheers!

[Guest Rocky V]

You have to admit that Eddie doesn't really have the look of a wrestler as compared to Benoit who is sononomous with pain ex.The Rabid Wolverine. Eddie is better as a gimmick so he would be better as a mid-card champion such as United States or Intercontinental Champion although some other mid carders with great gimmick would make for a greaat world champion.

Lex Luger was almost always a fore runner for the world title in every federation he was in. Mark Jindrak has basically the same gimmick (just with better moves, a better manager,...) and instead they put him on Velocity (their Saturday show on Spike TV, not sure if it airs in the UK). Randy Orton is another wrestler that would make for a great world champion seeing as how he is the future of Evolution.

[Guest JC]

You have to admit that Eddie doesn't really have the look of a wrestler as compared to Benoit who is sononomous with pain ex.The Rabid Wolverine. Eddie is better as a gimmick so he would be better as a mid-card champion such as United States or Intercontinental Champion although some other mid carders with great gimmick would make for a greaat world champion.

I don't really see what you mean with benoit LOOKING more of a wrestler than Eddie. Yea benoit is better in his own way but they're two totally different styles and the way I see it they're both brilliant champions apart from Benoit's lack of Mic Skills.

Edited May 31, 2004 by JC

[Evil Gringo]

How about Cena v Orton...

You've done the top two title holders, why not the second tier leaders?

 

Finisher... FU V RKO

Promo... Orton serious and intense v Rap comedy dissing

Gimmick... Street wise thug v Cocky rising star

Abilty... who is better?

 

Well I'd say the RKO is better then the FU as Cena doesn't do the DVD properly

Cena's promo ability is better

Cena's gimmick just shades it for me due to the cross demographic appeal and comedy element as well

Orton has the better in ring skill however as Cena has relied on punches, five knuckle shuffle, throwback and FU recently...

 

I'd say another 2-2 draw.

[Guest 619er]

Benoit & Guererro should go to a 5th round, but i can't think of one.

So here is my person verses person.

 

Chuck Palumbo V A-Train

 

Finishing move, Super Kick??? v Baldo Bomb

They usually both lose or arent on TV, so they never get to do there finnishers. I'll give it to the train, cos i think it would hurt me more.

CP-0 AT-1

 

Promo,None v None

Not much to say here, neither deserve points

 

Gimmick. ??? former Full Blooded Italians v Back Hair

well, not much here, FBI were funny to watch, but he dosent do it anymore so it goes to Train

CP-0 AT-2

 

In ring Ability.

Chuck cos Train sucks

CP-1 AT-2

 

Overall there is a reason why these guys don't get time on TV.

[The Icon]

It's being a while but I have as tals had time to write another in this series of Wrestler Vs Wrestler things this time Mick Foley Vs Undertaker

 

OK here goes nothing. Bear in mind that Taker & Foley are 2 of the wrestlers that I have the most respect for. H**L at one time I inspired to be just like them as they were living my dream. That in mind this is going to be very hard for me to decide a winner in each catagory.

 

Finisher. Undertaker first. First let's talk about classic Taker. His finisher was the Tombstone piledriver & it is a great looking move. Debately it is the best Piledriver varation to ever see a WWE ring.There is a good point though that either it looks sloopier on larger opponents or he does not try & use it at all. It should also be noted that the Piledriver can be a dangerous move & I agree with the (sort of) ban on it.

 

Now for Biker Taker. The Powerbomb this taker uses is to be honest not the best looking of powerbombs. Sure it looks like it hurts, but thats only because it genuinly does. On more than one occasion & esp Vs larger opponents Taker has or almost has F***** up this move. When done right though it is a devestating looking move & is one of the best powerbombs in WWE.

 

His third finisher as both Classic & Biker Taker is of course the chokeslam. While it does not always finish opponents he has never the less put away his fair share of opponents with this move so I classify it as a finisher. I like this Chokeslam varation but it is not quite as good as Kanes version.

 

Mick Foley. For the most part pre WWE & later on in WWE Foley finished off victims with the Double Arm DDT. I always liked this move & even if it is one of the most plagarised moves in wrestling (Almost everybody uses a DDT in their moveset) it is still a great finisher.

 

He as Mankind also uses the Mandible & / or Socko claw. To be honest I never really rated this move as it is the silliest submission move ever. That said in the heat of the match Mankind & the opponents really sold the move almost every time so you never really noticed just how silly it really is.

 

I will Give Taker the nod here.

 

Promo Ability.

Undertaker is not exactly world renowed for his talking skills but at the same time he is no slouch on the Mic & generally entertains. During the Ministry era however most of what he said on the Mic was pure nonsense, poetic nonsense, but nonsense never the less. Still I for one like most of what Taker has to say.

 

Foley on the other hand is a master of promos. His promos fall into 2 catagories

1/pysche promos, so called because he gets into the minds of his opponents & genuinly acts pyschotic on the Mic. This one is usually used only as Mankind.

2/Emotional promos. Foley is as good an actor as anybody in hollywood at 'pretence' emotions. You really will think he is happy, angry, insane or whatever he is trying to be at any giving moment.

 

So Foley wins this catagory with out a doubt.

 

 

Gimmick. Undertaker has had Three gimmicks. Classic Taker that being the Deadman, which is one of the best ever WWE gimmicks, Ministry of darkness Taker which was really rather silly & of course Biker Taker.

 

Dealing with classic Taker first. He was one of the most athletic & entertaing big men of the era(s) (1991-7) & there is little more I can add to that comment.

 

Ministry Taker complete with awful hair, silly promos, jobber friends (APA, Brood, Vis, Mid) & cruisifying opponents is best forgotten. (Vs Bossman in HITC was a new low for Taker.)

 

Taker as a Biker was a thankful change from all that nonsense & worked so well because it reflects the real Mark Calloway's persona, he really is a biker at heart. This gimmick has also run it's course though & old School Taker will be a welcome return.

 

 

Foley has also had several gimmicks. He protrayed Jack Foley & Cactus Jack Munson for about Five minutes but best forget them.

 

Cactus Jack the hardcore legend was & is a great character as it suits Foley's abilities & ring style. Dude Love was just a chance to show a lighter side of Foley.

 

Mankind also showed a side of Foley, The deranged side. While I enjoy all 'Three faces of Foley' I thing Cactus Jack is his best incarnation. (Remember the look on HHH's face when Jack returned pre Rumble'00 pure classic wrestling.)

 

A very hard desicion but I will just give Taker the nod.

 

Most over Wrestler

The Undertaker was over from the day he started wrestling in WWE fans just took to him straight away.

 

Foley on the other hand was more respected in inner circles (& by ECW fans) than by fans in general until Mankind came along.

 

These days both are legends & get huge cheers every time they appear but I will give Taker the nod.

 

In Ring Ability. Both wrestlers use similar styles of basic power wrestling. Both use slams, whips, punches & kicks rather than mat work or Speed wrestling.

 

The Undertaker though can turn it up a notch with Topes, top rope moves like walking the rope & susprising speed for a man of his size. He also uses a variety of submissions these days.

 

Foley though just uses the basic moves but uses them so in such an effective way that you don't even care.

 

I consider this catagory a draw.

 

Overall I will rate The Undertaker as the winner but it is a very hard desicion to make.

Edited September 6, 2004 by The Icon

[Guest MARTIN316V1]

Ok ill compare this to someone no one likes - Big Show, to be someone the smarks love - Benoit

 

Big Show

 

Wrestling Skills - 5

Move Set - 5

Mic Skills - 7

Gimmick - 7

Size - 10

Aerial Ability - 1

Finisher - 8

 

OVERALL : 43

 

Benoit

 

Wrestling Skills - 8

Move Set - 5

Mic Skills - 1

Gimmick - 2

Size - 2

Aerial Ability - 4

Finisher - 3

 

OVERALL: 25

 

So Overall Big Show is FAR better than Benoit, but as for Wrestling Benoit is far better. So thats why Big Show has been booked over Benoit for so long cause hes the best overall.

[Chris2K]

Martin, watch some stuff of Benoit in Japan, and then I'll consider that an unbiased opinion. What we have there amounts to as much as:

 

IM GONNA COMPARE CHRS BENOT TO HULK HGAN

 

BENOIT

 

WRESTLIN - 10

MOVES - 10

SYCOLOGY - 10

RING ATTIRE - 10

WIFE - 10

FAVE COLOR - 10

 

HOGAN

 

WRESTLIN - 2

MOVES - 2

SYCOLOGY - 2

RING ATTIRE - 2

WIFE - 2

FAVE COLOR - 2

 

THERE4 BENOIT IZ DA BEST RESTLER EVA.

[Guest MARTIN316V1]

Martin, watch some stuff of Benoit in Japan, and then I'll consider that an unbiased opinion. What we have there amounts to as much as:

 

IM GONNA COMPARE CHRS BENOT TO HULK HGAN

 

BENOIT

 

WRESTLIN - 10

MOVES - 10

SYCOLOGY - 10

RING ATTIRE - 10

WIFE - 10

FAVE COLOR - 10

 

HOGAN

 

WRESTLIN - 2

MOVES - 2

SYCOLOGY - 2

RING ATTIRE - 2

WIFE - 2

FAVE COLOR - 2

 

THERE4 BENOIT IZ DA BEST RESTLER EVA.

 

Wow, You Sure proved me wrong :roll

[Guest RvD316]

I will compare Chris Benoit and Mick Foley

 

Mick Foley

Wrestling:6(out of 10)

High Spots:10

Gimick(Mankind because it was best):9

Promo:10

Ring Attire(Mankind):9

Finisher(claw):5

total:49

 

Chris Benoit

Wrestling:10

High Spots:7(he can take big bumps)

Gimick:9

Promo:2

Ring Attire:9

finisher:9

total:44

 

 

It's close but Mick gets the win

[Guest MARTIN316V1]

Chris Benoit

Wrestling:10

High Spots:7(he can take big bumps)

Gimick:9

Promo:2

Ring Attire:9

finisher:9

total:44

 

Wrestling - He isnt a perfect Wrestler

High Spots - Fair Enough

Gimmick - A 9 for his Gimmick :eek

Promo - Agreed but 2 is being nice :P

Ring Attire - The Most dull ring attire on the roster :roll , which means squat all anyway

Finisher - The Crossface Sucks, Its worse than the Sleeper Hold HHH used a couple of years ago!

[Guest the_orton_mark]

How about Cena v Orton...

You've done the top two title holders, why not the second tier leaders?

 

Finisher... FU V RKO

Promo... Orton serious and intense v Rap comedy dissing

Gimmick... Street wise thug v Cocky rising star

Abilty... who is better?

 

Well I'd say the RKO is better then the FU as Cena doesn't do the DVD properly

Cena's promo ability is better

Cena's gimmick just shades it for me due to the cross demographic appeal and comedy element as well

Orton has the better in ring skill however as Cena has relied on punches, five knuckle shuffle, throwback and FU recently...

 

I'd say another 2-2 draw.

 

Okay this is my take on that.

 

Finisher:

 

Whilst the RKO is a much faster and more painfull looking move the F-U loks better as a finisher. Although it is often mistaken as some sort of death valley Driver, it is more of a variation of the Fireman Carry Slam.

 

The RKO however comes out of nowhere and does look dangerous.

 

Randy 1 Cena 0

 

Charisma:

 

This is where these two guys square off.

 

Cena has a great promo ability but it is beginning to get a bit under-used since his face turn. However when he was Heel his raps and random comedic outburst wherwe always classics.

 

Orton has a far better promo ability but doesn't have the charisma Cena has. THough he still has plenty of it to go around, it doesn't match. His promos while they can still be comedic are more serious mostof the time.

 

Randy 1 Cena 1

 

Move Set:

 

Orton is far superior in this area. He has a great variation, he can go from rough neck ( European Uppercut) to speed (flying crossbody, ground to standing flips , like HBK). BUt his technical and submission side isn't really based on submision but more on inflicting pain. he has many arm breaking moves and armbars and his knee drops can be placed on any part of the body with great skill. He can also do some great mat absed chain wrestling and during these parts of his match he moves at great speed.

 

Cena has a very poor move set. his matches always follow the same pattern. Quick punches at start, sells a mediocore move to make himself look destroyed, starts to gain heat with a comeback then gets knocked down. Once again stages a comeback which ends up with the throwback and then 5 knuckle shuffle. two count then F-U for three.

 

Orton 2 Cena 1

 

Orton is the clear winner

[Chris2K]

Martin, can you PLEASE just allow someone else's opinion to pass? Your grudge against Chris Benoit is rising to Ed-level. All you need to do is say Benoit held down 'worker X', and you've got it.

 

What is SO wrong with him? Why can't you find anything to like about him? I really would suggest you get hold of some of his Japanese work, because then hopefully you'll be able to see just how good he is.

[The Icon]

Nice Orton Cena one there, I would have giving Orton the nod though rather than a draw.

[Guest the_orton_mark]

Whichi orton cena one are you talking about?

[The Icon]

Um the one you posted above!

[Guest the_orton_mark]

...Yeha but I gave Orton the nod... didn't I?

[The Icon]

Sorry I'm going blind I could swear you had a draw.

[Guest MARTIN316V1]

 

What is SO wrong with him? Why can't you find anything to like about him? I really would suggest you get hold of some of his Japanese work, because then hopefully you'll be able to see just how good he is.

 

What good would me getting some of his Jappanese Matches prove? That was 10 years ago so how does that prove hes good right now :?

 

Somehow people keep saying HHH isnt what he was 3 or 4 years ago but when people are telling you to go watch some Benoit matches there from 10 Years Ago! :roll

[Guest the_orton_mark]

Sorry I'm going blind I could swear you had a draw.

 

Naw that was EVil Gringo :thumbsup