Fletch Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 You know I often sit and wonder this because when you look at talent in WWE that have been Main Eventers and Champions over the years then you dont necesarrily associate the names with being the best wrestlers in the World now do you? Austin- not bad, used to wreck his kness though The Rock- Not the best wrestler in the world Hulk Hogan- Technically useless Kevin Nash- Nuff said Now is i think that in wwe it certainly makes sense to have people who can draw in crowds and viewers int he main events but if these guys were just starting out today, who would really say they are great wrestlers and push them? No one to be honest, I think what happened with these guys was they had other things going for them, be it a gimmick, a style or a fan base or what not. Dont get me wrong there are still some great wrestlers in wwe like Eddie Guerrero, Triple h and Chris jericho being 3 examples ( no i havent forgot Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit lol) but in todays world is it really necesaary to be the best in ring, or dont u need and talent at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Gringo Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Well its all about how you carry yourself as well... Nash was huge and seen as a legitamate threat to any champion and in Vince's eyes bigger is better... Hogan could work a crowd and his gimmick made it such that people paid to see him be the champion and win so Vince kept the belt on him... Same with the Rock, but he also constantly improved as a wrestler and had great matches that the fans and critics loved.... And Austin... well it was like Hogan all over again, a man the fans loved to see as champion, it was the gimmick and the ability to draw excitment from the crowd that people loved... But in the dark days we are entering now it the people want to see great wrestlers, its a fact... Thats why Jericho, Benoit, Michaels and Eddie are over to the degree were people want them as champions, they appricate there work in the ring, not the gimmick, cos lets face it Benoit's is that he's just a though, dedicated wrestler who can make you tap... It was like this in the WWF in the dark days of 1995, people wanted to see Michaels, Bret and Razor Ramon because they were great wrestlers and provided excitment in their matches... Nash didn't so he never drew. And the reason? Becasue its fans like us, the ones who don't care for gimmicks but love work ethic and the poetry of a great match who keep the WWE afloat when all the kids who watch watch cos its the 'in thing' desert wrestling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest barnsleylass86 Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I feel that talent is forgotten a lot, i agree it seems more about how the stars carry themselves, it seems to me if they look fit or are really ugly then they no people will love hate em n thats it. I used to love proper wwe fights with hbk n bret hart, ultimate warrior. I think now the few that do have the talent often go unoticed, RVD, Jericho purely because the wwe feel moves alone dont draw in the crowds which is a sad reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cactus Jack Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Talent helps, but as longer as your not seriously lacking in it I think you can get along just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c0ma Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Talent still is a very important factor in the success of a superstar IMO. Especially in WWE, The only people who aren't paticularly gifted in the ring are guy who are considered legends, That the WWE fans will pop for no matter how old, or how dull their in ring performance be. It's not often WWE can push someone these days who isn't at least decent in ring worker. Guys like Matt Morgan, Nathan Jones etc were pushed heavilly at first until the fans became uniterested due to their limitations, However Matt Morgan is working hard to improve so fair play to him. Wheras you look at the guys WWE have recently been pushing, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, John Cena all of these guys are more than capable of performing inside and outside the ring. In conclussion, Talent used to be something which wasn't a neccesity, But just recently it's slowly started becoming more and more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jung Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 U need talent, but u also need that special x factor, which gets u that big jump from mid card to main event, and thats got nothing to do with in ring talent. Hogan, Rock etc may not be great in the ring, but they got that factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Beltster Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I'll keep my answer short and to the point. In the 1980's, you didnt need in-ring talent, as long as you had charisma...in 2004, you definately need in ring talent, or the fans see right through you... Example: John Cena...great on the mic, hugely over...SHIT wrestler...and the fans are starting to see this, as is the office...he isnt getting the mega push people thought he would, straight upto the WWE title, and if he had been the one to win the WWE title at WMXX as he predicted at WMXIX, then I bet he wouldnt still be the champion now, like Eddie who has a huge amount of in ring talent and has held onto that belt because the people believe he has what it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cactus Jack Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I'm not commenting on Cena's talent, but I admit I was like others who thought he'd still be on a mega push and on course for the strap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MachoMat Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I have always felt that the character is what got you over or took you places. If that character happens to be talented, so much the better. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT... Look at guys like Lance Storm who were talented but not gifted on the mic. The "where are they now" file is chock full of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bluestiger99 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Again I point to Rhyno, Matt Hardy, Shannon Moore, and Shane Helms. LOads of talent, little to no push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Saz Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 (edited) A wrestler is there to entertain the fans, simple as that. How they do it doesn't matter, as long as people cheer or boo them while they are in the ring then they have done it. In fact personality is 90% of a wrestling match, the more gifted wrestlers have a nice mix of wrestling ability, crowdplay, comedy and at least one gimmick move that the crowd love to see. Take the people's elbow for instance, it's a glorified elbow drop, but it is the glorification of that move that makes it so memorable (costly in elbow pads mind). The worm is another one.... The Undertaker is a no sell, no job gimmick in a box, but crowds want to see that, Undertaker lose at wrestlemania? nobody wants to see that, so they don't. You'll miss him when he's gone, mark my words. But never forget it takes two to wrestle in a ring, a wrestler's success is usually down to his opponent, but i'm not going into that. Saracen Edited June 29, 2004 by Saz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Dragon Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 (edited) a Edited December 17, 2006 by Mr Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MachoMat Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 How they do it doesn't matter, as long as people cheer or boo them while they are in the ring then they have done it. In fact personality is 90% of a wrestling match, the more gifted wrestlers have a nice mix of wrestling ability, crowdplay, comedy and at least one gimmick move that the crowd love to see. Take the people's elbow for instance, it's a glorified elbow drop, but it is the glorification of that move that makes it so memorable (costly in elbow pads mind). Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trash Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I agree, but I really just need an oportunity to show off my new avatar. credit goes to the maker of this thread for creating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 lol great Avator there Lege Mate, whoever made it must be class at graphics o wait it was me :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Gringo Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Lad's you are usually so well behaved... shame you had to let yourselves down... but it is a good graphic... The fact is without talent for somethings even with all the charisma in the world or strong booking nowadays the fans see right through it all... Look at Batista... he's had the push, he has the image and moves to be a monster but his lack of charisma and skill to draw a crowd or a create a good match means the fans don't care one bit... well the sane ones.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Saz Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Ack! Don't get me started on Batista..... Saracen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted July 1, 2004 Author Share Posted July 1, 2004 Batista, generic Big Bloke, Cant sell, limit moves, no charisma, barley any inring talent, poor mic skills, cant work a crowd....Should I continue Lets take a look at differences in workers The Rock- Average Wrestler, Superstar Look, Fantastic Mic Work, Excellent seller, Charisma by the bucket load, has the crowd in his pocket....MAin Event Hulk Hogan- Exactly the Same as Rock---Main Eventer now some of the lower guys Paul London- Fantastic wrestler, not so big on the charisma and mic work and stuff, mainly because he doesnt get time so the crowd arent used to him eithert----Velocitiy Sean O'Haire- fantastic wrestler, gaverage on the mic, works crowds well, tonnes of charisma......RELEASED???!!!!! Something tells me that WWE really look at the name rather than the talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tajiri Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I wouldn't class O'Haire as being fantastic in the ring, he had potential but he was very green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Dragon Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 (edited) a Edited December 17, 2006 by Mr Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Saz Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Do you by any chance look away whenever he does the "All physical damage I may have received prior to this moment is completely ignored" Kip Up ? Have you by chance noticed that every good guy gets the manure kicked out of him and then suddenly comes back as the do the "All physical damage I may have received prior to this moment is completely ignored" revenge spot... Not new, wrestling tradition, Rock just does it with style! Saracen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Dragon Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 (edited) a Edited December 17, 2006 by Mr Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Crow Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 A lot of japanese, mexican, and british wrestlers use the same technique too... superhero comeback, to work the crowd and get the face back into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Gentleman Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I must be in some backwards wrestling world when people are talking about The Rock being an "excellent seller" and Sean O Haire being a "fantastic wrestler". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Dragon Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 (edited) a Edited December 17, 2006 by Mr Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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