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*** WWE Unforgiven 2004 PPV Discussion Thread ***

Posted

PPV Prediction League

 

Post your predictions below – anyone can enter!

http://www.talkwrestlingonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14828

 

Matches

  • World Heavyweight Championship
    Randy Orton vs Triple H
     
  • Intercontinental Championship
    Ladder Match
    Chris Jericho vs Christian
     
  • World Tag Team Championship
    Rhyno and Tajiri vs La Resistance
     
  • Womens Championship
    Trish Stratus vs Victoria
     
  • 'Heartbreak Kid' Shawn Micheals vs Kane
     
  • Chris Benoit and William Regal vs Batista and Ric Flair

How to order the PPV

 

UK:

Live on Sky Sports 1 at 1am

 

USA:

See WWE.com - Unforgiven

 

Preview articles @ Wrestling 101

 

- WWE Unforgiven 2004 Predictions - By Boyo

 

- WWE Unforgiven 2004 Preview - By Stephen Ashfield

 

:xyx

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I think Unforgiven will be an Good PPV, although some of the matches were rushed, the top matches look good.

 

Triple H vs Randy Orton - People were saying this would be the WrestleMania match, but here we have it at Unforgiven with 2-3 weeks build up. If it indeed is the Mania match, HHH will beat Orton and then that will allow Orton to do the Road to WrestleMania (Cant Imagine HHH will do the Road to WrestleMania) to reclaim the title, but saying that it would mean only a one month title reign for a champion thats just turned face. But if Orton retains we may well see a Orton vs Rock match at WrestleMania.

 

Shawn Michaels vs Kane - This feud was build up awesome with Kane putting Michaels out of action, that was done brilliantly, only for them to throw all that away by having Michaels appear a few weeks ago on that thing telling young people to vote. What the Hell was the point with that? I thought Michaels was suppose to be out with a Throat Injury and he appears 100% nothing wrong with him. That just put the whole angle into the toilet. Stupid. Also this was far too rushed, they should have held the match off until Survivor Series and have maybe Michaels cost Kane a match at Unforgiven and go from there.

 

Chris Benoit and William Regal vs Ric Flair and Batista - Should be an ok match, Batista and Flair are part of a Stable so thats an ok team, But Benoit and Regal? WTF? Anyway i think after that Cage Match on Raw and JR saying 'Triple H has finally ended Eugene's Career'' we may see Eugene interfere in this match and cost Benoit and Regal the match, and reveal hes not special after all.

 

Chris Jericho vs Christian - Should be a good match but do either of them need to be fighting for the Intercontinental Title seeing as both have held the title multipule times, i thought the IC title was about a step to becoming the World Champ, not for wrestlers who cant cut it as Champ. As for the match, Ladder matches are always really good, so i cant see why this should be any different :thumbsup

 

La Resistance vs Rhyno and Tajiri - Nobody Cares, apart from me because i have Rhyno and Tajiri in my FWL Team :P

 

Trish Stratus vs Victoria - Who Cares?

I agree unforgiven does look like a good event and i am especially looking forward to the ladder match.
Sounds good. Cant really see the point in the Evolution tag match. You'd think it was cause of Eugene ut Flair and Batista just put a few boots in while HHH did the real damage. The ladder match should be awesome, you couldn't ask for two better competitors in this type of matc. Main event is looking tasty, but im not expecting much from Kane/ Michaels, there not really known for making somrthing special happen in a match are they. There best are always when someone is carrying them.
well rock/orton at wm is almost impossible (with rocks special appearances only contract). I hope that rhyno and tajiri kick la resistances asses - they suck. They are better than they used to be (even if the gimmick is getting tired), when they first came they were the worst at promo-ing, and they still get cheap heat now... America sucks...boooo.
just read boyos predictions - i agree with all of it, that guy is a genius
IT could turn out to be good. But I'm worried that the good ol' creative team might feck it up a ladder this time again. Ladder matches are always good. Especially with these two comptetitors...Though chrsitians best ladder macth was in the old Edge 'n' Christian stable...jerivho's best was with Benoit... but anyway I digress. It should be a solid PPPv unless it gets jcked like so many ebfore it.

I thought Unforgiven was ok show.

 

Benoit and Regal def. Flair and Batista - An ok match to kick things off, but Benoit has suddenly gonna from main eventing one ppv to kicking things off the next :?

 

Trish def. Victoria - Nothing Special

 

Tyson Tomko def. Steven Richards - :roll

 

Chris Jericho def. Christian - Good Ladder Match, but none of them need the IC Title

 

Shawn Michaels def. Kane - Good Match, nice to see Kane get a Sweet Chin Music on his Ugly Mug :P

 

La Resistance def. Tajiri and Rhyno - Rhyno and Tajiri you fools, you've screwed up my FWL :mad

 

Triple H def. Randy Orton - HHH taking the title will probably let Orton do the road to WrestleMania and win it back then :thumbsup

 

Im to tired so ill do a detailed review tomorrow :xyx

Edited by MARTIN316V1

I liked the PPV as a whole but myself and my friend were rather pissed off with HHH winning the belt. They had just built Orton up really well as the person that could take everything Evolution and Bischoff threw at him, to then have him lose the belt after one month seems a bit pointless. All the promo was about Orton being the youngest ever champ etc, but his title reign was for one month so was it really worth it??? The title being around HHH serves no purpose and in my view has weakened the value of the belt.

 

Also Tomko vs Richards, was there any need?

Ahh wwe continue to come up with some very strange ideas. The belt going back to HHH was unexpected on my behalf and it will be interesting to see where it goes from here, but to be honest i think i am bored of HHH's title reign already. Please get someone else back in the picutre. And as for Stevie richards, why oh why oh why? The only feud that has been built up for a number of weeks (admittedly not a great angle!) and they do the uncover in the most bizarre way ever with even JR and King not giving a damn. What a waste of my time! Oh and good to see they pretty much ended Trish and christians relationship in 1 minute after building it up for months before christian got injured. some very strange ideas indeed, but at least it will have made some interesting reading in the predictions league!!
Live has thrown me a double edged sword, on one hand my favourite WWE wrestlers in the form of Jericho, Triple H and Sylvain Grenier all win. But then I look at my FWL and I only see Jericho and the loser of the HHH match Randy orton. Im officially on the anti-orton band wagon now as he has spoilt my FWL straight away.

I thought this was a bit of a shoddy effort to be honest.

 

Benoit/Regal v Flair/DAVE was no better than a tv match. Wasn't entirely impressed that Benoit was jerking the curtain one month after being champion. Would you see any other World Champion treated like that?

 

Trish v Victoria was what you'd expect from them. The women's division really isn't my cup of tea but little did I know what I was in for shortly after. Stevie Richards and Tyson Tomko. What the hell was that about? It was dreadful in every way. No crowd heat, no action. Just some big guy with funny facial hair beating up aa guy dressed in drag. Terrible.

 

Even the ladder match I found quite disappointing. For what I was expecting anyway. I thought it was pretty good and definitely match of the night but I was still expecting better. I enjoyed Edge v Christian ladder match and Benoit v Jericho ladder match a lot more. Some nasty bumps mind although I think Christian should have got the belt.

 

HBK v Kane was probably a little better than I thought it was going to be. The finish seemed a little botched and how much longer will Shawn get away with using that "Sexy Boy" music? He's a 40 year old, balding man and is certainly not sexy any more.

 

The tag titles match was alright. Another TV match if you ask me. I also felt Rhyno and Tajiri should have got the belts. Maybe they are going to continue the chase a little longer.

 

The main event bored the arse off me until it got into it's insanely overbooked part that most WWE main events have. Couple of nice RKOs out of nowhere. Triple H getting the belt again is seriously dull. Someone else should be getting in the title picture. It's not even that I don't like Triple H, it's just that he is in too many main events and it is getting really boring for me. He should do what Angle does, just move away from the main events every so often. If Kurt Angle (who is just as over as HHH and is better all round) can do that then Triple H certainly can.

Well WWE clearly are in big trouble, and the PPV was ok. But jeez how silent were the crowd in the main event? I mean people can talk about the people not caring for Taker and JBL at Summer Slam, but the crowd just sat on their hands, and well considering this is supposed to be the biggest feud WWE have for the next year, and the one they are banking on, the crowd really didn't care, and it was embarassing.

 

I'd always said HHH would win the title, because of the way they ruined the whole angle, but really the rushing of the angle, means the whole feud has become 100 times less than what it could have been. HHH has been proven right, and Orton proven wrong, not the ideal way of pushing ure big babyface, but because it was so rushed, that was unfortunately the only thing you could do. I can't see the crowd or the fans buying it for the Mania main event, cause we've got another what 7 months till that?

 

I mean most big events go from Rumble to Mania, this one has to go from post Summer Slam Raw to Mania, even in WWE's best days, they'd have found it tough to do, and now with the problems they are in, its gonna be damn near impossible. Personally I'd have had Orton injured last night big time, bring his dad out on Raw say Randy's gotta retire, then have him become like surprise entrant in the Royal Rumble and win that. But nope he's still about, so what are they gonna do with either of them?

 

If they face again, who's gonna want them in the main match at Mania? I don't think fans will pay more money, or accept the fact, that a match they've seen headline 2 or 3 PPV's already, will be the big match at Mania?

 

They are pretty much totally screwed, and they only have themselves to blame. They seriously need a prayer now, cause unfortunately I can't see anything or anyone now, who's gonna get them out of this rut, and they are just heading further and further down.

Hehe someone's put on pwtorch.com, that since the Raw title was made, (which was what August 2002? Triple H has held it for 447 days out of possible 741, working out as a percentage of 60.3%. So for 60% of the time its been around, HHH has had the belt. Pretty ridiculous that, and another reason why WWE is in such a bad state. Chris Benoit is the only person to win the belt off HHH and not drop it to him. Orton, Golberg, HBK all did. And that's why so many don't like the main events, cause 3/4 of the time, they already know the outcome.

Re The WWE title switch

I didn't realise it until about 5 minutes after the bell had been rung at the end, but this was very clever by the WWE..

 

They wanted to give HHH the title, but still wanted to keep Benoit's credit high...and in the fact they wanted to branch Orotn out as a singles star and with one swift reign you have it.

 

Benoit is a Main Eventer, if he were to go after the world title right now, nobody would blink an eye. Why? Because the world heavyweight champion CAN'T beat him.

 

Randy Orton, They got him out of Evolution commitments and set up a match..his first title defense against HHH....and because of the controversial ending everythings blow wide open.

 

Survivor Series is two months away, a lot can happen in two months...Benoit could become #! contender again or Orton could start on a path for revenge on his former team-mates...until finally reaching HHH at Survivor Series.

 

Or how about something bigger happenig at Survivor Series involving all 3 men...throw in another 3 names and have yourself a good ol' elimination Chamber....right now I do not have a clue what will go down...thanks to the short reign of Randy Orton, it pretty much cements the fact...ANYTHING can happen in the WWE.

 

It's quite genius when you think about it.

You have some interesting theories there but:

 

Benoit is a Main Eventer, if he were to go after the world title right now, nobody would blink an eye. Why? Because the world heavyweight champion CAN'T beat him.

 

Why is Benoit jerking the curtain then? Surely that is no way to treat a main eventer. Would you see Shawn Michaels in the opening match? Would you see Triple H?

 

In theory Benoit should be number 1 contender because Triple H has beaten everyone except him but this is WWE land and Benoit will probably be jobbing to Tyson Tomko some time soon on Raw.

You have some interesting theories there but:

 

 

 

In theory Benoit should be number 1 contender because Triple H has beaten everyone except him but this is WWE land and Benoit will probably be jobbing to Tyson Tomko some time soon on Raw.

 

True he was relagated to opening match status but I am sure his main event push will resume soon.

Maybe they will do a Rock/Foley angle in 1998-1999 when the title changed hands noumerous times between the 2, then Orton/HHH will finish it off at WrestleMania.

I really didn't enjoy the show, which came as no surprise as I've barely enjoyed anything put out by WWE for months now.

 

The opening match was decent, as you'd expect, but we've seen so many combinations of Flair and Batista Vs Benoit and someone else that the match just felt like your typical TV match at the end of the first hour. Flair doesn't really offer much these days, and I'd even go as far as saying he's not even as good as he was when he first returned to WWE. I'm afraid I'll need to join the "Keep Flair Out Of The Ring" bandwagon, albeit that he's still one of my favourites. One thing that I might really enjoy is if Flair turned face and became Benoit's manager. You've got one of the best workers in the promotion with one of the most charismatic, the history is there (with the Horsemen of course) and Benoit's heat would probably double. Anyway, there wasn't an awful lot to hate about the match, but it didn't offer anything we've not seen 30 times before.

 

The promo backstage with Christian, Tomko and Trish taught me a few things.

 

1- Tomko has as much charisma as a dry Jacob's cracker.

 

2- Christian and Trish's pairing has been wasted. I thought it was a sure fire way to elevate Christian to the upper echelons of the card. Instead, they've done next to nothing, brought in a complete waste of space as a mutual bodyguard, and now it looks like they could be splitting up with the arguement they had last night, with neither person in a better situation than they were before.

 

As for Trish's match, I can't stand American women's wrestling (After you've had Joshi, you don't go back). This was another match that offered nothing new, it's been done to death. Of course, the important thing about the match was that it lead to Tomko Vs Stevie, aka, DEATH BY RESTHOLD. It's been a while since I've heard a "Boring" chant that audible on a WWE show, and what did Tomko do to turn the match on it's head and bring the crowd back into it? A billion chinlocks. I have no idea how WWE can say someone like Tomko is ready for the main roster, and they fire Sean O'Haire. They both have similar looks, although the latter has much more charisma, and is a far better worker. So who gets the push, and who gets fired? If you said the talented one, send your CV to Stamford now.

 

Christian's match with Jericho was a bit of a downer. Maybe the whole gimmick has been done to death, but I've seen better ladder matches than that one. There seemed to be too many times where they needed to use a SLOW CLIMB. I'm all for selling the effects of a shot to the head with a ladder, but I'd rather see something more realistic, such as going out of the ring to get a new and more sturdier ladder, to waste time, rather than the person climbing at a laughably slow speed. A few of the bumps looked like they would hurt legit, especially Jericho's "ladder up the ass" fall. Jericho doesn't need the belt, the match was a generic spot-rest-spot fest, although it could lead to something interesting if Edge and Christian reunite. Reusing the old Undertaker and Kane "Are they in cahoots?" angle would work a treat here, especially if it leads to tag matches against Jericho and a competant partner.

 

Kane Vs Michaels was better than I thought it would be. Shawn actually mixed up his finishing sequence (His flying forearm-kip up-elbow-Superkick routine was getting tired), which was much needed, because it was verging on Hogan levels of self-parody. Everyone and Paul Heyman's mother knew that Lita would be involved in the finish, although I was a bit surprised to see Kane job on a PPV again. What's that now, three wins in about as many years? It wouldn't surprise me. I don't know where this feud will go now, although WWE might play up on the fact that HBK kissed Lita's hand after the match. Some kind of jealous Kane getting paranoid everytime someone looks at his property type angle has been done plenty of times before, but it might work again here.

 

The tag team title match was pretty average. Rhyno is one of these guys who could easily be a huge player if given the right treatment, but this is WWE we're talking about, we should be lucky the don't make "horn" jokes every night. I was seriously thrown by the false finish of Tajiri's flag-to-nuts shot followed by the Gore, and if they'd stretched out the actual finish to the match by 5 mins or so, the crowd could have been a lot more into it. Nothing totally great to see here, but I have a lot of time for both teams, and Sylvan even managed to put together a decent looking mat wrestling sequence at the start of the match. There's hope yet for Patterson's playboy.

 

Now, the main event. Where to start? The crowd was sitting on their hands, because this angle has been rushed so fast that it could have picked up a medal in the Olympics if it had entered the 100m Sprint. What should have taken 8 months has been done in 8 weeks. It makes NO SENSE to give Orton such a short reign. Remember Kane's title run? It lasted a few hours. It's his only world title since his debut. I'd wager that if Kane hadn't gone over Austin at King Of The Ring 98, he'd have been given a proper title shot at a later date. Orton could be the same.

 

"Hey, why not give Orton the belt?"

 

"Well, in his last run, he didn't do anything with it. Let's just give it to Triple H instead"

 

"Um...you ARE Triple H"

 

"So it's settled, I win my 17th title tonight. Thanks Vince"

 

OK, a bit of an exageration, but I don't see what good it did to give Orton the belt for a few weeks. Hell, they could have given Benoit a month longer with the title, for all that Orton did with it. If WWE wanted HHH to win the title back at Unforgiven, why not have Benoit win at Summerslam, then make a triple threat match last night? HHH could have turned on Orton during the match and won the gold, putting us where we are now without the waste of space that was Orton's title reign.

 

I'll admit, I'm not a huge Orton fan. He bores me. He's been pushed down my throat since his debut as being this great young superstar, yet he can't work a 5 minute match without it turning into a chinlock-fest. However, I do believe that World Title's should be treated like the be all and end all of a promotion. If your title picture looks bad, your company looks bad. Long runs with good booking help make the belt look good, like something that people strive for. Where's the striving when HHH wins the title in his first match against Orton?

 

It'd be too easy to use all the great quotes from intelligent people in the Anti-HHH threads here. If you still can't see that Triple H has more stroke than any other member of the active roster, then you're nuts. Seriously. You must actually be crazy. No doubt we'll now get a 7 month title reign from HHH now, with every show being back to dedicated about him. He gets the opening 15 minute promo, he gets numerous 2 minute vignettes from Bischoff's office and the Evolution locker room, he gets talked about all night by Lawler and Ross (even during other people's matches), he main events a 4/6 man tag match at the end of the show, and when Raw goes off the air, the final shot is of HHH holding his belt over the bloody challenger.

 

Unforgiven was a bad PPV, with bad booking and matches not delivering. And now HHH is the champion. Again. Well, at least it means I can go out on Thursday nights.

The only reason i could think of them giving Orton the title was to beat Brock Lesnar's Record, thats what i thought when Orton won at Summerslam, and im even more certain now.

I agree with practically everyone here... this PPV has seen some atrocious booking thats wasted loads of opportunity to elevate WWEs struggling product:

Splitting up Christian and Trish before either of them can go anywhere is foolish: both are at the point where they could benefit from each other to crack the megastar bracket, but instead they go look to be heading back into teh same stuff they were doing before their excellent storyline.

Not pushing Rhyno (or even Tajiri) up a notch with a title win is a mistake as IMO he could be massive if booked right!

Just the act of keeping Tomko on the roster is appalling - lets hope he does a Mordecai now and gets the boot after a PPV flop)

..and as putting the title back on HHH - I just can't understand why this happened. i've heard that WWE have been unhappy with Ortons reign, but it's barely started - and this bit of nonsensical booking will set him back something chronic. To say nothing of the cheap finish that belongs on Raw, not a PPV.

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