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TNA Victory Road Discussion Thread - 15th July 2007


Guest FreeSpirit

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Guest FreeSpirit

Preview:

 

USA: Sunday 15th July on PPV at 8/7c-LIVE ($29.95)

UK: Wednesday 18th July on Bravo 2 at 8pm

 

TNA Victory Road 2007 will take place on Sunday 15th July 2007 from the iMPACT! Zone in Orlando, Florida. The promotional poster features Gail Kim, The Latin American Exchange (Konnan, Homicide and Hernandez), Abyss, A.J. Styles, and Samoa Joe.[/Quote]

 

Matches:

 

*Match Of Champions:

TNA World Heavyweight Champion Kurt Angle and TNA X Division Champion Samoa Joe vs. TNA World Tag Team Champions Team 3D (Brother Ray and Brother Devon)

*NOTE: All 3 TNA titles will be on the line, with the wrestler getting the pinfall or submission winning the belt of the wrestler they beat.

*NOTE: If Angle or Joe get the fall on one of the tag team champions, they will get to pick their championship partner.

 

*Ultimate X Match:

Jay Lethal vs. TBA vs. TBA vs. TBA vs. TBA vs. TBA vs. TBA vs. TBA vs. TBA vs. TBA

*NOTE: The winner will become #1 contender to the TNA X Division Championship.

 

*Chris Harris vs. Christian Cage

 

*Rhino vs. James Storm

 

*Eric Young and Gail Kim vs. Robert Roode and Ms. Brooks[/Quote]

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Guest Redneck Messiah
That's a whole lotta TBAs for the X Division match :lol I've been enjoying TNA lately so will be looking forward to the PPV. I must admit I'm not the biggest fans of Rhino or Chris Harris although I like their opponents for the matches.
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Guest The Great Ahmar
Sting & Abyss vs. AJ Styles & Tomko

 

3-Way: Kaz vs. Havoc vs. Martyr

 

Two more matches announced

 

Who?

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Guest SuperKick Kid

Another "TNA Rant" from the man from Calgary.........ALBERTA, Canada.

 

 

Match of Champions

July 8 07 (June 25, 2007)

 

I wrote this the weekend before the news of the Benoit Tragedy hit, and compeltely forgot about it, which is why I am posting it so late. The "Match of Champions hasnt' happened yet, so it is still relevent.

 

I know I’ve bashed TNA unmercifully, and the last thing they need is more criticism, but this past week’s episode of TNA Impact, and the announcement of the “Victory Road” Main Event has p- - - ed me off so much I have to rant some more. As a trade off, I figure talking about TNA’s up coming PPV and it’s Main Event might help create interest in the event, which may counter act my negative rant and help them out a little as well. You know the old saying, “The only bad press, is no press.”

 

The match that Jim Cornette announced as the Main Event for Victory Road (Live on PPV July 15th) is called “The Match of Champions”. This match pits the World Tag Team Champions (currently Team 3D) vs. the Tag Team of, the World Heavyweight Champion (currently Kurt Angle) and the X-Division Champion (Samoa Joe). In this match all 4 Championships are on the line. If either member of Team 3D scores the victory, that person wins the respective singles Title of the person he scores the win over. If Joe and Angle’s team wins the person who scores the victory wins both Tag Team Titles and will be able to pick any partner he wants to be World Tag Team Champions with.

 

Are you confused yet? If not just wait because this match creates all sorts of possibilities that accomplish nothing but to further destroy what little credibility TNA Titles have left. For the first absurd possibility let’s consider the fact that Titles in TNA can change hands on a Disqualification. It was bad enough when Abyss won the World Title from Sting via DQ, but what happens if one of the illegal men in this match gets disqualified? If Brother Ray and Samoa Joe are the legal men, and Kurt for example hits D Von with a chair and gets disqualified, who gets what Title? Does Brother Ray become X-Division Champ because at the time of the deciding fall he and Joe were Legal and thus Brother Ray technically beat Samoa Joe, or does D Von become World Champion, because he and Kurt were the deciding factor in the finish? Could a World Title change hands between two people who aren’t even legally involved in the match at the time? That’s got to be good for Title credibility.

 

Even if you set aside TNA’s asinine disqualification rule this match is still a complete logical nightmare. TNA has created a tag team match where there is no incentive for either tag team to work together, so it should be nothing but utter chaos with 4 people all out for themselves, yet all of TNA’s titles are on the line. World Titles are on the line and being decided in a match that in NO WAY WHAT SO EVER can fairly determine who the better Team or Singles wrestler is, which last I checked was the whole point of World Titles, to recognize who the best is. A simple fact TNA has apparently forgotten.

 

In theory Team 3D could decide to simply defend their titles and work cohesively but if they do that, the illegal guy at the finish is willingly passing up a chance to be either World Champion or X-Division Champion. If D Von allowes Brother Ray to score a pin fall he would be willingly giving up the chance to hold a singles Championship in addition to his Tag Title. If Titles are to mean anything no one would pass up that chance, so both your opponents and your partner should be trying to make saves at all times during the match.

 

On the other side of the ring things get even more confusing. Again ignoring the DQ fiasco, if Joe or Kurt aren’t legal they can’t win the Tag Titles but also can’t lose their Title. This creates a situation where there is even less reason for either of these two guys to work together, not to mention the fact that they hate each other. From a logics stand point (I know an absurd concept in wrestling at the best of times) you have two guys who hate each other, who don’t tag together normally as a team, and who have zero incentive to co-operate and work together, facing the best Tag Team in the World (They are World Tag Team Champions after all) who have been teaming together for years, and who have more incentive to work together; if Tag Team wrestling is supposed to mean anything at all, this should be a lopsided match in favour of Team 3D, which of course it won’t be.

 

If you took 5 guys who were the best 1 on 1 Basketball players in the world and had them play the best Basketball Team in the World in a regular Team game of Basketball, who do you think would win? If somehow the two singles wrestlers with no incentive to work together managed to defeat the greatest Tag Team in the world, they would then at least be worthy Tag Team Champions, as they would have beaten the best and therefore become the best. Problem is TNA has managed to eliminate that possibility as well, because if Team 3D is defeated Kurt and Joe (The team that beat them) don’t become Tag Team Champions the winner of the fall gets both Titles and can then pick any partner out of the blue, awarding someone a World Tag Team Title for a victory in a match they weren’t even involved in.

 

The only way this could get any better (I’m being sarcastic, you should read that DUMBER) is if Kurt or Joe were to win the World Tag Team Titles and select Judy Bagwell as their partner so she can have her second run as one half of the World tag Team Championship!!!!!

 

While I will admit this match is a novel gimmick idea, which might create some interest, it is a completely illogical way for a company to determine its’ World Championships, and only serves to make said World Titles completely meaningless. Common sense has to apply at some point. Even if this business is “Sports Entertainment”, it is meant to appear real to some degree. The boys are expected to run their matches as if they really wanted to win, and as an extension of that shouldn’t a company (TNA Management) try to book matches as they would if this was a real sport and they wanted their Champions to be deserving of the Titles they hold?

 

Would the IOC (International Olympic Committee) Award the 100 Meter Sprint Gold Medal to one member of a 4X100 Meter Relay Team for being able to beat the true 100 Meter Sprint Champion in a relay race where he is forced to run the race with 4 other people he doesn’t like or regularly run relay with? Or better yet in the unlikely event that the 4 singles guys beat the Gold Medal Relay team, would they give all 4 Relay Gold Medals to just one member of that Team and let him award those Medals to who ever he wants after the fact? Of course not and if they did, everyone would come to the conclusion that Olympic Gold medals are just stupid props that don’t mean a d**n thing.

 

Guess what TNA that is what you are doing to your World Titles at Victory Road (July 15th Live on PPV). They are now nothing more than meaningless stupid props.

 

Lance Storm

 

stormwrestling.com

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Guest Dave7g
Would the IOC (International Olympic Committee) Award the 100 Meter Sprint Gold Medal to one member of a 4X100 Meter Relay Team for being able to beat the true 100 Meter Sprint Champion in a relay race where he is forced to run the race with 4 other people he doesn’t like or regularly run relay with? Or better yet in the unlikely event that the 4 singles guys beat the Gold Medal Relay team, would they give all 4 Relay Gold Medals to just one member of that Team and let him award those Medals to who ever he wants after the fact? Of course not and if they did, everyone would come to the conclusion that Olympic Gold medals are just stupid props that don’t mean a d**n thing.

 

Yes Lance, wrestling isn't an olympic sport, it's not a sport at all. It's about time you realised this.

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The card looks ok for wrestling, and bad for everything else.

 

The X-division cluster**** is just desperation booking because they still haven't learned how to get anyone over in that division. Joe is still the wrong choice for X-div champ because he's an upper midcarder in a main event match and absolutely no effort has been made to make any other X-division star look remotely upper-midcard. This match won't do anything to help the cause and will be forgotten about, much like most TNA matches this year, because TNA have no grasp on how to make things work or get things over.

 

The main event is still an atrocious one. If TNA want their declining PPV buys to go up, this isn't the main event to do it. Seriouly, Team 3D in a main event? Sorry, I'd rather see Khali than Brother Ray and that's a shoot. We all know Joe and Angle are winning, and no doubt the guy picking up the win will pick the other as their co-champion for no other reason than to keep their enemy closer, which is stupid because they'll obviously turn on each other and set up the big match which'll be handled horribly.

 

Rhino/Storm'll be good though.

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Respect for ol' Lance is slowly slipping away. He is becoming the next Bret Hart. Whats he got to be so bitter about? Is it just a Canadian thing?
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Guest dpddave
Respect for ol' Lance is slowly slipping away. He is becoming the next Bret Hart. Whats he got to be so bitter about? Is it just a Canadian thing?

 

How is he been bitter? Hes talking sense really,it is a stupid match to book. And anything he says about TNA is true mostly...

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Yes Lance, wrestling isn't an olympic sport, it's not a sport at all. It's about time you realised this.
I still class it as a sport (it is shown on SKY SPORTS after all), just not an obviously competitive one.

 

Not all sports are competitive, hence the term "competitive sports". It may be a work when I'm wrestling someone, but we are doing our best to have the best match on the card (which is where the competitive part does come in), regardless of the "realness" of what we're doing.

 

Lance makes a lot of interesting points. Suspension of belief is something that only goes so far, and it pays to keep it as close to the bone as possible. Look at the MVP/Benoit series. The reason that got over so much was simple. One man (MVP) felt he was better than the other (Benoit), and they had a series of matches to find out who the better man was. No girlfriends who show up to get their ankle broken, only to be forgotten about. No mothers who shot their husband, but let the son take the blame, only for that son to be blackmailed over this information DESPITE IT BEING BROADCAST ON INTERNATIONAL TV.

 

The analogy Lance Storm used about the relay team is a good one, and it makes sense. For some reason, when WWE did this match twice (HHH/Austin v BoD and DwA v Bulldog/Owen) it made sense and didn't seem complicated. Now that TNA are doing it, they have to make it with so many variables that it becomes a clusterf*ck waiting to happen.

 

As has been said, let's pretend Team 3D land 3D on Angle. Which one gets the pin? Will they have made a deal backstage where Ray gets Angle and Devon gets Joe? Will they fight it out? If Team 3D are on fire and Joe is getting creamed, why would Angle tag in and risk the title he's fought forever to win?

 

I can promise you something, and you can deny it all you want, if WWE were putting this match on under these stipulations with Umaga and Cena teaming against Cade & Murdoch, you'd be sh*tting all over it from the day it was announced.

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Guest FreeSpirit
Sting & Abyss vs. AJ Styles & Tomko

 

3-Way: Kaz vs. Havoc vs. Martyr

 

Two more matches announced

 

Don't worry I'm not taking it as gospel, but according to Wiki its the winner of the Senshi vs Petey Williams vs Jerry Lynn match, and the winner of Kaz vs. Martyr vs Havok match who get to compete at the 10 man Ultimate X Match.

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Guest Dave7g
I still class it as a sport (it is shown on SKY SPORTS after all), just not an obviously competitive one.

 

Not all sports are competitive, hence the term "competitive sports". It may be a work when I'm wrestling someone, but we are doing our best to have the best match on the card (which is where the competitive part does come in), regardless of the "realness" of what we're doing.

 

Lance makes a lot of interesting points. Suspension of belief is something that only goes so far, and it pays to keep it as close to the bone as possible. Look at the MVP/Benoit series. The reason that got over so much was simple. One man (MVP) felt he was better than the other (Benoit), and they had a series of matches to find out who the better man was. No girlfriends who show up to get their ankle broken, only to be forgotten about. No mothers who shot their husband, but let the son take the blame, only for that son to be blackmailed over this information DESPITE IT BEING BROADCAST ON INTERNATIONAL TV.

 

The analogy Lance Storm used about the relay team is a good one, and it makes sense. For some reason, when WWE did this match twice (HHH/Austin v BoD and DwA v Bulldog/Owen) it made sense and didn't seem complicated. Now that TNA are doing it, they have to make it with so many variables that it becomes a clusterf*ck waiting to happen.

 

As has been said, let's pretend Team 3D land 3D on Angle. Which one gets the pin? Will they have made a deal backstage where Ray gets Angle and Devon gets Joe? Will they fight it out? If Team 3D are on fire and Joe is getting creamed, why would Angle tag in and risk the title he's fought forever to win?

 

I can promise you something, and you can deny it all you want, if WWE were putting this match on under these stipulations with Umaga and Cena teaming against Cade & Murdoch, you'd be sh*tting all over it from the day it was announced.

 

Smackdown Spoiler

 

 

Kane appearing in Edges mind and then disappearing is suspending your disbelief? Will Lance be going nuts about this in his next column? I highly doubt it.

 

 

Was Lance going nuts when Super Crazy clearly didn't pin Mr. Kennedy on Raw the other week but the ref still counted? Of course not.

 

Lance is in league with Alverez, they are slightly biased.

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Guest dpddave
The thing is WWE can get away with these things because its not going to affect there fanbase. TNA are trying to built a fanbase and there not gonna do it by doing all the stupid sh*t they do.
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Smackdown Spoiler

 

 

Kane appearing in Edges mind and then disappearing is suspending your disbelief? Will Lance be going nuts about this in his next column? I highly doubt it.

 

 

Was Lance going nuts when Super Crazy clearly didn't pin Mr. Kennedy on Raw the other week but the ref still counted? Of course not.

 

Lance is in league with Alverez, they are slightly biased.

That is the biggest pot-kettle I think I've ever read on an internet forum.

 

I can promise you something' date=' and you can deny it all you want, if WWE were putting this match on under these stipulations with Umaga and Cena teaming against Cade & Murdoch, you'd be sh*tting all over it from the day it was announced.[/quote']Oh, and did you forget to read this part?
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Guest Dave7g
That is the biggest pot-kettle I think I've ever read on an internet forum.

 

Oh, and did you forget to read this part?

 

You didn't actually make any points there Sir.

 

I haven't said anything good about this TNA match since I hate the DUDS in every way, yet I would lke to see Joe and Angle go at it again. So yeh, I'm not defending this match at all, it would have been ok with LAX, not these clowns.

 

As for Cena in a similar match, It's against the Gospel according to Kurtmark to discuss a TNA vs WWE point, but yeah, the thing is Umaga is a midcarder, and Cade and Murdoch are hardly the most decorated tag team in history are they?

 

Joe is main event, and I'm a big fan of his, I'd rather eat wasps than see Cena ever again, whereas I'm a huge Angle mark. Then again I prefer Cade/Murdoch to team 3D. So TNA's match, no matter how it goes, is better to me.

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Man, just on Umaga/Cena vs. Cade/Murdoch, hypothetical match and all and it wouldn't exactly sell many PPVs but whoa would it ever be better than Joe/Angle vs. Team 3D at this point.

 

That card looks horrendous by the way.

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