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Divas Thread 689650157, Split from News Thread.


Guest DarkMatchJobber

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Guest DarkMatchJobber
Victoria was good in 2002 but she's been fairly rubbish since then in my opinion plus she doesn't fit in with Vince's idea of what a diva should be (in other words good looking enough to have a future love-interest storyline with him).
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Guest MastersGonads
Victoria was good in 2002 but she's been fairly rubbish since then in my opinion plus she doesn't fit in with Vince's idea of what a diva should be (in other words good looking enough to have a future love-interest storyline with him).

 

So was this the case with Chyna? You can be a real male chauvinist arse at times...

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Guest DarkMatchJobber
So was this the case with Chyna? You can be a real male chauvinist arse at times...

 

I'm not being chauvinistic but let's look at the list of divas Vince has had 'affairs' with on WWE television

 

Candice

Sable

Torrie Wilson

Stacy Keibler

Trish Stratus

 

It's almost like a right of passage that the biggest female stars must be romantically linked with Vince on television.

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I'm not being chauvinistic but let's look at the list of divas Vince has had 'affairs' with on WWE television

 

Candice

Sable

Torrie Wilson

Stacy Keibler

Trish Stratus

 

It's almost like a right of passage that the biggest female stars must be romantically linked with Vince on television.

 

And now give me a list of all the Divas in WWE history, im sure it will tower your list.

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Guest DarkMatchJobber
And now give me a list of all the Divas in WWE history, im sure it will tower your list.

 

I'm not going to be drawn into a debate about WWE and it's women's division because as I said in my initial post it's an opinion and if you don't like it then I really don't give a damn.

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I'm not going to be drawn into a debate about WWE and it's women's division because as I said in my initial post it's an opinion and if you don't like it then I really don't give a damn.

 

You dont get my point, you said the only way WWE divas can make it anywhere is if they are involved in a love angle with Vince, and you gave a very small list of WWE divas, there are alot of other divas who havent been involved in a love triangle with Vince.

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Guest MastersGonads
I'm not going to be drawn into a debate about WWE and it's women's division because as I said in my initial post it's an opinion and if you don't like it then I really don't give a damn.

 

Why not be drawn into a debate about the WWE Women's division?

 

You seem fine slating the division, but when someone takes you to task about your 'opinion' you get all defensive and hide behind the old age 'my opinion line'!!!

 

Plus as Perfect highlighted...you named 5 Divas, out of a possible 60 +

 

Way to highlight your argument :xyx

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Amazingly those "talented" Divas are normally the ones who get their knockers out in Playboy, which shows the high reguard Vince has for them.
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Guest MastersGonads
Amazingly those "talented" Divas are normally the ones who get their knockers out in Playboy, which shows the high reguard Vince has for them.

 

Well after seeing 'One Night in Chyna' I know who I would rather see in Playboy!

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Victoria was good in 2002 but she's been fairly rubbish since then in my opinion plus she doesn't fit in with Vince's idea of what a diva should be (in other words good looking enough to have a future love-interest storyline with him).

 

I actually think Victoria is extrmely hot, and if booked right wouldn't look like such a loser most of the time. God knows why they give McCool the title and have Victoria job all the time.

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I actually think Victoria is extrmely hot, and if booked right wouldn't look like such a loser most of the time. God knows why they give McCool the title and have Victoria job all the time.

 

Because only one of them is polishing Takers brass knob?

 

Victoria would have ruled as Diva's Champion.

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Guest DarkMatchJobber

Firstly I do find Victoria to be an attractive woman and I enjoyed her work in 2002 during her feud with Trish Stratus but since then she has constantly been made fun of on-air (sumo costume for a fancy dress but others can dress up sexy?) and seemingly buried in the ring.

 

When she was in that annoying group with Candice and Torrie it was frustrating to see someone with three times the personality,talent and versatility in the background behind two women whose greatest claims to fame are appearing in playboy.

 

Also most of the divas that have been hired in recent years don't last long because they are either fired (WWE realises they aren't very talented,they show no aptitude for anything or are just more hassle than they are worth) or quit (thanks to bullies like JBL and Orton most of the time).

 

I don't slate the division because it is fun to do but the Divas division is not even necessary when the women who have actually shown some personality and potential such as Michelle McCool,Natalya and Maryse could just go over to RAW and make the Women's title division more competitive with the likes of Melina,Mickie,Beth and perhaps Katie Lea (seeing as ECW stars can appear wherever they like).

 

And also Trish Stratus had to endure crawling around the ring on all fours and barking like a dog along with being Vince's little sl*t before she even had a hope of actually building an in-ring career.

 

Then you had Lita who could do well in the ring but as soon as the scandal was revealed about her and Edge she was turned into a complete sl*t seemingly overnight who would be offfered to other wrestlers by Edge as a persuasion tool...heck,on her last night with the company they decided to embarass her by having Cryme Tyme throw her personal stuff into the crowd....way to treat her!

Edited by DarkMatchJobber
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Guest Jimmy Redman

I laugh at how people complain all the God damn time about all the Divas being blonde, talentless bimbos. They wear these skimpy ring outfits, they love their bikini contests, they all look the same even when they dress up twice a year.

 

Then someone like Victoria comes along who bucks the trend and tries to be different, and instead of wearing just another bikini, she has the confidence and the sense of humour to work a match in a Sumo suit and dress up as a giant banana, and then people complain that she looks stupid. Thats the point! She has the ability to be an over-the-top heel and steal the show, so to speak, no matter how big or small her role on TV is, because she always does something entertaining. That might be falling off the turnbuckle, or wearing a snorkel to a water fight, or being surprisingly rolled up for the 459th time. But she's exceptionally good at what she does, and I fail to see how her character is somehow bad, or a punishment, when in actual fact she's just being a great comedic heel.

 

How much fun would you have with Santino being a serious wrestler, never doing anything embarrassing and winning all his matches?

 

Trish Stratus did go through a lot of crap before she became a really good wrestler. I always shudder to think what a place like this would have said about Trish in 2001. Think about it. But she turned out pretty OK, and I think a few of these blondes have the same potential, if they stick around. These girls have an advantage in that they've been trained and are wrestling full time basically from the outset, whereas I get the feeling Trish didnt wrestle that much at first. Kelly, Layla, Maryse and Michelle are already competant wrestlers, and the heels are pretty good at being heels, the latter two especially. Not that any of them will be Trish, because nobody could ever be Trish, but they all have potential. Unless of course there are any Iron Man matches on the horizon.

 

Regarding Lita, it must have been a personal disappointment for her to have left the company as a heel like that, especially after Trish's epic retirement just 2 months prior. But back in 2005 WWE had no choice but to turn her heel and align her with Edge, after the story got public and the crowds killed her. Blame Matt Hardy, if you like. Lita also got really, really awful as a wrestler after that as well, maybe down to not wrestling as often, I dont know. But Lita was a heel, they werent going to turn her face in the context, and they had a good story of "you people dont respect me", which was true. Funny, I really enjoyed the Cryme Tyme segment after her last match. It was funny. They couldnt play for sympathy for her, because Lita wasnt sympathetic. Lita isnt stupid. This is wrestling. What Trish got (and what Flair got) only happens...once. You cant expect it for every retiring wrestler, male or female.

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Guest Jayfunk
Like every division in every promotion the DIVA's have the good points (Nattie, victoria, beth, mickie, lea, Kim) and they have there bad points (the rest)
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Guest ScottyB
Like every division in every promotion the DIVA's have the good points (Nattie, victoria, beth, mickie, lea, Kim) and they have there bad points (the rest)

 

I love how you put Kim in the "good points" list, despite her not appearing on WWE TV since her signing, especially as you don't know what WWE plan on doing with her because you seem to base a lot of your opinions on their current gimmicks, it is obvious it's down to her TNA connections.

 

And before you say that she's good (based upon her TNA performance), then I feel you should add other wrestlers (Jillian, Melina) to the "good points" list because their earlier work (what I've seen, Jillian is pretty damn good) is just as good as Kim's (and before you say I'm wrong, I'm going to use the argument you and MVP seem to love to use, in that it's my opinion, therefore it's right and I don't want to talk about it anymore)

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Guest Jimmy Redman

Yeah, I'm a bit stunned that Melina isnt on his list. She rules. She's also had more great matches than Kim, and with more than the one person.

 

Jillian is also better than people give her credit for.

 

EDIT: Going back to the Victoria debate, there's something I just thought of that beautifully illustrates my point.

 

We all rave about Victoria's wrestling. Rightly so. Good. Now name me a really great Victoria match in, say, the last two years. You cant? I didnt think so.

 

You'll tell me its because she's wrestling talentless bimbos and hasnt had the chance, which may well be true, but that doesnt matter AT ALL. Because Victoria has never been as entertaining as she has been in the past, say, two years. (At least not since her original psycho heel run, which was over before 2004.) Victoria has been fantastic in recent times, and if not for Beth Phoenix becoming triple awesome, she'd have been the best Diva of the year. Without one great match to her name. Because despite her wrestling ability, Victoria's appeal lies not with just wrestling matches, but with her character.

 

If I wanted to list the things Victoria has done to deserve all my praise lately, you know, the 'Best of Victoria', if you will, it would include only one match. ONE match. And a squash match at that. Maybe some other things that happened during a match, but no other actual matches. Again, I'll use the Santino argument, because they are comparable. The 'Best of Santino' shouldnt include any matches whatsoever. If you made a Santino DVD tomorrow, would you put a match on it? I sure as hell wouldnt. Just all of his promos and segments, ever. Same with Victoria; I'd just put every great heelish thing she ever did.

 

Wrestling is so much more than just wrestling, or who can wrestle better than who, its ridiculous. I am the biggest Victoria fan I've ever seen, and yet not once in the past 18 months did I ever think "I wish Victoria was beating these chicks and winning the title." I would never begrudge myself heel Victoria in 2008 for some elitist notion that somehow her being a great wrestler and being 'taken seriously' is more important than enjoying myself.

Edited by Jimmy Redman
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Guest Jayfunk
I love how you put Kim in the "good points" list, despite her not appearing on WWE TV since her signing, especially as you don't know what WWE plan on doing with her because you seem to base a lot of your opinions on their current gimmicks, it is obvious it's down to her TNA connections.

 

And before you say that she's good (based upon her TNA performance), then I feel you should add other wrestlers (Jillian, Melina) to the "good points" list because their earlier work (what I've seen, Jillian is pretty damn good) is just as good as Kim's (and before you say I'm wrong, I'm going to use the argument you and MVP seem to love to use, in that it's my opinion, therefore it's right and I don't want to talk about it anymore)

 

who said that. no one in this debate are talking facts no-one Not me, MVP,MG or Redman it is all down to taste. To me as i enjoy the more in ring side of things and those 6 are the people i think are good regardless of gimmick, heck if was gimmick related Victoria wouldn't have been it as hers suck (abit like seraad (sp) in TNA her gimmick suck but Cheerleader Melissa is an awesome wrestler) . IMO apart from those six stand outs the rest a meh. I can understand not everyone cares about in ring talent and thats ok but i do!

 

regarding Jillian and Meilina they may be above he rest but i wouldn't rate them as high the other six and of the two i think Meilina is the better one

Edited by Jayfunk
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Guest Jimmy Redman
who said that. no one in this debate are talking facts no-one Not me, MVP,MG or Redman it is all down to taste. To me as i enjoy the more in ring side of things and those 6 are the people i think are good regardless of gimmick, heck if was gimmick related Victoria wouldn't have been it as hers suck (abit like seraad (sp) in TNA her gimmick suck but Cheerleader Melissa is an awesome wrestler) . IMO apart from those six stand outs the rest a meh. I can understand not everyone cares about in ring talent and thats ok but i do!

 

So you really dont rate Melina or Jillian simply as wrestlers? Like I said, Melina has done more in the ring than Gail Kim. But folks and strokes and all that, I guess.

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Guest Jayfunk

and yet she has not had one match or one fued that comes close to Awesome Kong vs Gail Kim fued.

 

But then again that could because Kong is better than all three of them

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Guest Jimmy Redman
and yet she has not had one match or one fued that comes close to Awesome Kong vs Gail Kim fued.

 

But then again that could because Kong is better than all three of them

 

Ahaha, Mickie v Melina at Backlash was just as good as Kong/Kim at their best. Believe it.

 

Melina also had a great feud with Beth in May (for a feud in and of itself I'd put it above Kong/Kim) and their I Quit match was also top stuff, the other Women's MOTY in fact. Add in the two nifty three-ways with Beth and Mickie, and her forgotten match with Trish way back when, along with generally having good matches, and you'll find that Melina has done a whole bunch of great stuff. I dare you to find anything as great Gail Kim has done outside of Kong.

Edited by Jimmy Redman
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