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Who Is The Better Wrestler Debates


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Note this is an topic where I basically take 2 popular WWE stars past or present & pit tham against each other in several important catagories & decide a winner in each catagory. (& also decide an overall winner bassed on the winner of each catagory.)

 

The Miz Vs Dolph Ziggler

 

The Main Event

The battle of the Raw World Champion vs the IC champion. The Miz brings a fresh look to the world title scene and he is a good talker and worker who I see going big places. Ziggler is a fast rising superstar who has good heat behind him.

Yes I know about Dolph's SD loss but for this article he is IC champion so as not to spoil it

 

 

 

Right let’s get the ball rolling with the first category their finishing moves.

 

Finisher. Miz goes first then. Miz has of course the reality check which is not only the most dangerous looking face front slam in WWE today it is the best face first slam move period For a long time. The thing that makes it stand out is the ability Miz has to hit it at any time anywhere. Most other finishers require the wrestles to have his opponent in a certain place Not so with the RC though it can appear at anytime & is the best finishing move on raw right now.

 

Ziggler sometimes uses a submission finisher, the sleeper, but he does not use it that often. Thank god as it is boring. Primarily though Dolph uses the Zig Zag. A fairly great move. It really gets the crowd going & looks the part as well all in all a good finisher.

 

While I like the Zig Zag I never the less could only ever declare one winner in this category the Reality Check, & therefore Miz wins here.

Miz (1) Dolph (0)

 

 

Promo ability.

While not a requirement in being a WWE main event superstar (Just ask yokozuna for example) this category is never the less often (sadly) a deciding factor in a wrestler’s sustained push.

 

This is also Dolph’s weakest point & the main reason, I believe, that his status as a true main eventer that he may actually be able to pull off may not happen. Luckily His promos always make sense & he never wastes words either the worst that could be said is that he seems to lack the ability to emote the best during his promos. Still Vickie does his talking mostly and after the bell in the ring anyway is where ‘Dolph talks’ & that is more than enough for me & evidently that is also, for now, enough for Vince & the bookers as well.

 

As for Mr Miz well this is a category in which he stands out. His promos are often contain mild shoot based elements, he talks about his real life, & he puts his full emotions into every word & sentence.his normal promos are often Raw’s highlights.

 

Miz is the clear winner in this category.

 

Miz (2) Dolph (0)

 

Gimmick ah yes the one thing that can make or break a WWE wrestler, just ask Avatar for example, but not as important as it once was. These days most wrestlers play extensions of their own selves rather than play gimmick wrestlers.

 

Miz for one just plays himself more or less. If it could be said he has a gimmick it is the Gimmick of not having a Gimmick at all. It is a gimmick that he shares with at least half the Raw (& SD) locker room. Miz doesn’t need some half assed gimmick anyway gimmicks are reserved mostly for bland wrestlers anyway to help them get over*.

 

(*Mostly does not mean always)

 

Ziggler meanwhile started off in WWE as a sort of person who wanted to make friends with everybody. (Hi, I’m Dolph Ziggler!) To be honest this Gimmick was a bit silly although Dolph made the most of it. Much, much better is his current role with Vickie. To be honest while I liked the comedy aspect of his character on his debut it does not suit a WWE (IC) champion & I am glad he dropped that part for now.

 

This category is one that could go either way but I think Dolph deserves it slightly more so he wins.

 

Miz (2) Dolph (1)

 

Move sets & Basic In ring Ability These Two excel in this category.

 

Miz uses a variety of wear down holds, moves & sometimes high flying spots to great effect. With regards to Ziggler's move set, he's built as a guy with legit amateur wrestling credentials so is booked as such mostly. Both men are more than capable of carrying ‘ahem’ inferior opponents that is always the first sign of a perfect in ring wrestler. As for who can better carry a weak opponent & whom can best tell an in ring story well that’s a hard one… …but For that match with Cena on Raw alone Dolph gets the nod

 

Miz (2) Dolph (2)

 

Crowd appeal

 

Well Dolph has huge heel heat at the moment. I don’t know how much of it is contributed by Vicky but the man is over big. The crowd hate him in the want to boo kind of way which is a sure sign that his character is over. Miz is much the same. The crowd react to Miz and really like to interact with him. While it is hard to pick a winner in a catagory with two Stars who have the crowd in their pocket I am going to go for Miz. For the simple reason that he is his shows leader while Dolph is not yet.

 

Miz (3) Dolph (2)

 

So there you have it the Miz wins a close contest. Until the next context Bye Bye.

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Guest Dave7g
That's a very long winded way to say that Miz is a better wrestler than Ziggler. You also missed out on who has the worst name. Miz is a term use to describe a woman who doesn't want her marital status known, and Dolph Ziggler is the worst name I've ever heard. So Dolph wins that one.
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That's a very long winded way to say that Miz is a better wrestler than Ziggler. You also missed out on who has the worst name. Miz is a term use to describe a woman who doesn't want her marital status known, and Dolph Ziggler is the worst name I've ever heard. So Dolph wins that one.

 

Well if there was a worst name part it would be Dolph yes.

 

 

Now this one will no doubt cause a lot of debate particually when you see who win's.

 

Bret Hart Vs Shawn Michaels

 

The main event. The controversial HBK the man who helped define the ‘Attitude’ era & The Hitman the man who many rightly believe was the king of old school WWF. Putting them together in a feud as they were was always going to spark controversy & it did. Still Survivor Series 1997 aside the feud was quite interesting although they never really had a stand out singles match. These Two wrestlers have more top ten (of all time) worthy matches than any other wrestlers & as such this is going to get interesting real fast. I will also say right now that I already know who is going to win this & it may not be whom you would expect.

 

Finisher.

Shawn of course has the Superkick, one of the most overused moves in pro wrestling by the way, but let’s regress a little first. Let’s return to his days as a Tag team specialist

wrestler. Back then he used in conjunction with his tag partner Marty Janetty a move called The Rocker Dropper. In singles matches he would also finish off opponents with this move, a move that looked much like Billy Gunn’s Fameouser. Returning to modern times & the Shawn that today’s WWE fans know let’s discuss the Superkick. As I mentioned it is a move that is overused it is generally giving to any wrestler when another finisher can’t be thought up. (See Chuck Palumbo & Steven Richards for example.) Overused or not Shawn’s version still excites every time I see it. This is mainly because it looks so different to any other version for a start there’s the version where he stamps his foot to get the crowd going, no other superkick is like this. Other than that it’s just the way he does it & the fact it can come from anywhere that makes this move stand out.

 

Bret has the Sharpshooter a move played homage to almost every week in WWE for a while usually by Chris Benoit. Unlike the Superkick is not a move that can be used at any time or place. Still while there is no element of surprise to the move what it lacks in surprise it more than makes up for in excitement. Sitting on the edge of your seat wondering if the latest ‘victim’ of the sharpshooter would tap or make it to the ropes is one of my favourite wrestling memories. This is one of only a move wrestling moves that everybody loves most moves have just as many critics as fans but I can honestly say I don’t know one person who does not rate this move highly.

 

Much as I like the Superkick only one move would or indeed does win here & that is the sharpshooter.

 

Bret (1) Shawn (0)

 

Promo Ability

 

Bret Hart is no slouch on the Mic that’s for sure & while he never had any really stand out promos they were still all above average & in some cases excellent. Of particular interest & outstanding quality were his promos with & about the Late Owen his brother, these promos raised the bar for all that were to come after. His pro Canadian speeches in 1997 were also standout stuff & indeed still stand the test of time.

 

As for Shawn well during his early years as a tag team face he rarely spoke but when he turned heel in 1992 his mic work was acceptably good. When he turned face again in the mid nineties he kept up the good work & was everything but outstanding on the Mic. Outstanding is something that soon caught up with him though & his work with DX was some of the best promo work, this side of Mick Foley, ever seen in a WWE ring.

 

This category is very hard to choose a winner in but I am not going down the draw road. Hard as it may be to do so I am going to declare Shawn the winner here.

 

Bret (1) Shawn (1)

 

Gimmick

Bret’s Gimmick from 198? To 1991 was simple he played himself more or less. He played the beloved Canadian face that as part of a tag team or singles superstar vanquished the Evil (& in those days often foreign) heel. More or less a mid card version of Hulk Hogan really I suppose. It was in 1992 & with his first title win that he became the main eventer & all round excellent star that we know & love today. That is where I thought this story would end I never thought a heel Hart would happen let alone work but it did. Squaring him off against nasty heel with attitude Steve Austin & then in the process turning Hart heel & Steve face should by all logic never have worked but it did & it spawned the first of many Canada Vs USA WWE feuds. (Technically it wasn’t even the first Canada represented by Earthquake & Dino Bravo plus others feuded with USA represented by Hulk Hogan & others at an early survivor series & was heavily hyped at the time as being a Canada VS USA feud.) The great thing about this heel turn was that half of the events at this time took place in Canada were Bret was naturally still much loved. Getting it right (for once lol) WWE played this angle perfectly by not trying to have Bret diss the Canadian fans like say for example Christian did at this years WM, instead they played on the fact that in one area Bret was a heel & in another a face.

 

Shawn too mostly played himself in the early days as a singles

wrestler

a slightly ****y Texan heel & more to the point a ladies man. Other than in his DX days he has played that role ever since the only difference being that he was a slightly ****y face rather than a heel & these days the ladies man part is played down. During his DX days he added another angle to his character, comedy. DX were involved in some of the funniest & often controversial angles of the time from showing up at a WCW event to a sexy women included cooking thing. These days up until retirement Shawn still played himself although the comedy angle has long being dropped little else has changed.

 

I think Shawn just; just mind deserves this category so he wins.

 

Bret (1) Shawn (2)

 

Fan following (Most over

wrestler)

 

Hard category to pick a clear winner in because regardless of when each was heel or face the crowd loved them & / or loved to hate them. The chant so & so sucks should never be taking for real heel heat the chant is usually there because the crowd really do think the

wrestler in question sucks. However when during his DX days the crowd chanted Shawn sucks, & worse, it was because he genuinely over as a hated heel not because the crowd thought he sucked. The same of course can be said of Hart’s heel time in the mid nineties. Bret maybe has the edge because during his earlier days he was always slightly more popular than Shawn. Still during their run in the nineties (1995-7) when they were both headline faces it really was impossible to tell which one had more fans just watch WM 12 again it’s impossible to tell who had more support in their iron man match. Still I think Bret has had more important & more headline money making matches, mind you even that’s debatable, so I will give Hart the win here.

 

Bret (2) Shawn (2)

 

Move sets & Basic in ring ability.

Now this one is going to be a really tough call as both are great technical wrestlers & both are capable of carrying a Rock (& I don’t mean Dwayne Johnson) to a good match.

 

Looking at Hart first he had a selection of moves which he always used to tell a story in ring. He would always use a (Russian) leg sweep, a bulldog & various grapevines to wear down an opponent. Shawn meanwhile used slightly more highflying moves augmented with a basic move set. Both were just as capable of wrestling a brawling, speedy or Technical style depending on the opponent(s) in question. As yes the opponents Bret could have a good match with anybody half decent such as Kevin Nash & Yokozuna & when giving an equally good opponent such as Jerry Lawler or Curt Henning was capable of 5 star matches every night. (His best match & one which most fans have long forgotten was against Curt at KOTR 1993.) Shawn too can work a good match with a lesser opponent he carried Sid for example to his best ever work. Just like Bret when paired with an anyway half decent opponent such as HHH he can have a 5 star match seemingly without even trying.

 

However & this will upset Bret fans on his, admittedly few, off days Bret was no match for Shawn on his even fewer off days. Bret for example could not carry Isaac Yankeem to a good match where as I believe Shawn could have. (Judging solely by his matches with Kane.) In other words I believe Shawn has being more consistent then Bret overall & Shawn deserves this category more than Bret for that one reason.

 

Or does he? While Shawn might be better at carrying lesser talent is he better at having a good match with equally good talent? Did Shawn for example ever have a feud as good as Bret vs. Owen or Bret Vs Curt? Debatably I say he never had a feud as good as either so for that reason Bret should win. As this one is impossible to sort out I am going to give the nod to Shawn, as I was always a bigger Shawn than Bret fan myself.

 

Bret (2) Shawn (3)

 

The Bottom Line.

I said at the start you may not believe who I already knew would inevitably win this & even as I was typing it I had no doubt Shawn would just pip Bret to the post but don’t let the end result fool you any of the 5 categories could have being one by either man & it was really just personal taste that Gave Shawn one more than Bret. Until next time Goodbye

Edited by The Icon
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Guest Jimmy Redman
Dolph has a better finisher than Miz, but Miz has a better gimmick, those points should be swapped I reckon, not that it would change the result.
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Guest Dave7g

Now this one will no doubt cause a lot of debate particually when you see who win's.

 

 

It wont cause any debate from me, I'll just say that you're wrong and leave it at that.

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Yeah, can't really disagree with the Shawn/Bret points. Shawn's gimmick was far more versatile and interesting, even though Bret's heel turn did more for business. Shawn was a much better worker, especially in the big match environment, had longevity, was/is a better talker and actor, and will be remembered in 20 years in a higher esteem than Bret, unless you live in Canada.
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No word of a lie, I'd probably have had that score at 5-0 to Shawn. In a few categories, he'd only just beat Bret, but a win is a win.

 

Yeah, Bret was great, but he is also easily the most over-rated wrestler I've ever heard of.

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No word of a lie, I'd probably have had that score at 5-0 to Shawn. In a few categories, he'd only just beat Bret, but a win is a win.

 

Yeah, Bret was great, but he is also easily the most over-rated wrestler I've ever heard of.

 

Really? 5-0. Bret is rated a bit more highly than he deserves maybe but he is still good.

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Really? 5-0. Bret is rated a bit more highly than he deserves maybe but he is still good.

 

Yes, he is. But I've seriously thought about it, and, IMO, Shawn is better in every single way it is possible to be better. And not just better than Bret either. On one or two points there are people who can come close to or outperform Shawn. The Rock was a better promo, SCSA was a better draw etc. As an overall performer.... not many.

Edited by etz
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Yes, he is. But I've seriously thought about it, and, IMO, Shawn is better in every single way it is possible to be better.

 

Difference of opinion is good. Some would pick Bret and some would pick HBK.

 

Me if I wrote this again next week I might pick Bret to win as It was a hard call for me to pick a winner.

 

A little easier was for me to pick Miz as the winner of his one vs Dolph. I would pick Miz again I think.

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Yeah, it is mostly just opinion. I'm not being objective because when I rate wrestlers it's about me wanting to watch them. I like Bret, but given a choice between watching Bret or Shawn, I watch Shawn.

 

Apart from the fans thing, and Shawn only wins that because he's wrestled a lot of great matches a lot more recently than Bret. And the finisher, because SCM "retired" Rick Flair.

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Yeah, it is mostly just opinion. I'm not being objective because when I rate wrestlers it's about me wanting to watch them. I like Bret, but given a choice between watching Bret or Shawn, I watch Shawn.

 

Apart from the fans thing, and Shawn only wins that because he's wrestled a lot of great matches a lot more recently than Bret. And the finisher, because SCM "retired" Rick Flair.

 

Yeah Bret's last really good match was in 1999.

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That's a very long winded way to say that Miz is a better wrestler than Ziggler. You also missed out on who has the worst name. Miz is a term use to describe a woman who doesn't want her marital status known, and Dolph Ziggler is the worst name I've ever heard. So Dolph wins that one.

I couldn't believe "Dolph Ziggler" when I first heard it. Come on...seriously? What an awful name. Whoever thought of that deserves to be shot. That just sums up the current state of the WWE because I have absolutely no faith in them. They can have a good storyline and someone along the line, I'd expect them to fit a pointless comedy segment in it, with Ron Simmons, Mae Young or the other one...whichever is alive and Santino. They ruin everything.

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Guest Horowitz
Yes, he is. But I've seriously thought about it, and, IMO, Shawn is better in every single way it is possible to be better. And not just better than Bret either. On one or two points there are people who can come close to or outperform Shawn. The Rock was a better promo, SCSA was a better draw etc. As an overall performer.... not many.

 

This.:good222:

 

I liked Bret, but think Shawn was better in every way. If I had one U.S. wrestler to watch, it would be Shawn over anybody in the ring. A few were better than him on the mic, but in ring for giving the fans something special, HBK wins.

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Guest Dave7g
I would mostly agree with that.

 

I wouldn't at all. Before 99' what memorable matches did he have? Hell in a Cell? Nothing better than Bret/Perfect or Bret/Austin that's for sure.

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