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Extreme Rules Buyrate Talk


Guest The Beltster

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Guest The Beltster
The first numbers for Extreme Rules (Brock vs Cena) are out:

 

147,000 in North America

251,000 in Total

 

For comparison, in 2011 the same show did 108,000 domestic and 216,000 worldwide, so up 36% in North America.

F*cking atrocious. WWE's booking is dog shit awful though. This should be considered a massive MASSIVE flop.
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F*cking atrocious. WWE's booking is dog shit awful though. This should be considered a massive MASSIVE flop.

 

Is that number massively down in general then? I mean if you're saying it should be considered a flop then is it very bad figures compared to all the rest of the PPV's (bar mania).

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Guest The Beltster

Its not massively down, but thats not the right way to look at it. This should be considered a huge flop specifically because its not massively up!

 

You bring in one of the biggest PPV draws of the last several years and put him in the main event of a PPV against the biggest star and face of your company and the PPV numbers match the status quo. You dont consider that to be a disaster?

Edited by The Beltster
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I don't really consider it anything particularly because talking about buyrates tends to be ass boring but you seemed so animated about it I just wanted to understand why you saw it as big an issue/fact. The post said it was up 36% on last year, again I've no idea what WWE do for the average PPV so I don't know whether even though it's up against last year it might be down compared to the other non-lesnar PPV's. or about equal.
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Guest John Hancock
I'd call it a flop too. Lesnar, on a UFC card, used to add around 500,000 buys to a standard buy rate (UFC pay-per-views tend to sell between 300,000 and 400,000 buys on average, whilst Lesnar card sold between 800,000 and 1.5 million), in WWE, he adds under 10% of that, just 39,000 buys. A massively wasted opportunity for WWE and you'd hope they'd take it as something of a kick up the bum... but they won't, because they never do.
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You have to consider it's the first Pay Per View, 3 weeks after a lot of people shelled out what 50/60 dollars or £15 here for WrestleMania. I know from my friends at the very least, no-one was going to pay that again for a card that was by and large WrestleMania rematches and one big Main Event as opposed to watching online for free. Extreme Rules was never going to do huge numbers, regardless to who was in the ME, be it Brock Lesnar, John Cena, The Rock or anyone else, because financially I imagine to a lot of people, it didn't make sense when the overall card was weak and a Main Event that'd be all over the internet the very next day.
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Guest The Beltster

Those are all excuses though and they might hold water if this was just any old WWE but it wasnt, it was Brock Lesnar, a long time proven massive PPV draw in his first match back against the biggest star of the modern era. I'm not asking for WM numbers but it didnt even break 150,000 measly PPV buys in the US. Thats horrendous! I'd have at least expected 250,000 from it and even that, when you compare it to Brock's UFC numbers, would be measly.

 

It shouldnt matter if people paid out the month before for WM. There's a PPV the month before every PPV, that hasnt stopped people from shelling out for events that Brock has been a part of.

 

Fact is, WM aside, WWE is in the shithouse PPV-wise and its only getting worse.

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Guest John Hancock
Just looked this up for comparison; the lowest ever drawing UFC card with Brock Lesnar on it did 600,000 buys. Of all the UFC shows headlined by Brock, only ONE did less than a million buys, and even then, it did 800,000. This has to be close to the biggest buy rate drop-off for any pay-per-view main-eventer in recent history. In the space of, what, four months, he lost value of over 650,000 buys. Pathetic. Edited by John Hancock
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That's a ludicrous way to look at it though. WWE and UFC have different viewers and demographics for a start. It's like comparing figures between The Rock doing 2 movies, one being an action movie, one being a Disney movie. Just because they have the same guy on doesn't mean they'll draw the same at the box office. Or are you going to look at it as though The Tooth Fairy LOST so many million dollars of revenue rather than just didn't do so well?

Fact is WWE is a scripted broadcast that is completely different to what UFC produces. Those million viewers for example that saw a Brock UFC event, that's pressuming they all watch for Brock, which of course they don't/. You cant then expect all of those to then watch that same guy on something they may or may not watch that's completely different to what they've enjoyed him on.

 

Then of course UFC doesn't broadcast 4 hours of first run television, 2 hours of first run Web Shows plus at least 4 different recap shows on US TV per week. There's not a show 24 hours after a UFC Pay Per View with the results from the previous night clearly visible and continued on. It's a completely different television and PPV model that each company uses.

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I;d also say that having had the whole rock/cemna things at WM that I think the audience is never going to be pumped for what was essentially the same thing just done over a couple of weeks with a different guy.
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This will probably add to what's considerED A Wwe fanboy stance (which i'm not, but I do fail to see how a low buyrate is really entirely WWE's blame. In terms of booking and marketing the event, they really couldn't of done much more. They were never going to have Brock wrestle before, that was part of the allure of the match, his first in 8 years. He'd been physical with Cena, the booking wasn't bad at all.

 

Put Brock Lesnar in the Main Event of a TNA B Pay PER View against any of their top stars, and I guarantee the buyrate would be at least half of the one WWE did for Extreme Rules

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Guest The Beltster
I do fail to see how a low buyrate is really entirely WWE's blame. In terms of booking and marketing the event, they really couldn't of done much more. They were never going to have Brock wrestle before, that was part of the allure of the match, his first in 8 years. He'd been physical with Cena, the booking wasn't bad at all.
Of course its WWE's fault, who else it to blame? Brock? The booking was bad, infact, it was dog shit awful as it always is! The fans wanted Brock to be a babyface, they f*cking hate Cena! They should have kept him as a face and had him match Cena his bitch on every show leading in and then destroyed him at the PPV. Instead they put him with Johhny friggin Ace, as a heel, making stupid demands. The booking sucked!

 

And all that aside, if WWE were actually smart in any way at all, they'd have held off Lesnar's first match on PPV until SummerSlam and help off his TV debut until late June or July. But of course, WWE arent smart, they are retarded and love to rush through anything as quick as they can and usually with as many plot holes as possible.

 

Put Brock Lesnar in the Main Event of a TNA B Pay PER View against any of their top stars, and I guarantee the buyrate would be at least half of the one WWE did for Extreme Rules
First of all, thats stupid logic. You're comparing the industry leader to TNA. Secondly, that comment proved without any doubt you are infact a WWE fanboy. Of course if they put it on TNA it would do even worse than WWE, its TNA! But WWE are as widely known and recognised as UFC, moreso worldwide I'd imagine. You cant use TNA in this argument if you are going to use total buys because even when TNA book something perfectly (Kurt/Joe) it still maxes out at like 60,000 buys and they've done that number once. They average 8000 buys for f*ck sake! WWE average 140,000 domestic and with Brock they pulled 147,000 domestic. This IS a massive flop, there is not arguing that and there are no excuses to be made. This is WWE's fault and their fault only. Even the most uptight WWE homer can see that.
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The booking was logical, keeping him from wrestling until Summerslam would of killed all the buzz about his return in the first place. Cena, like him or not, is never going to turn heel. His entire character is built around doing what he does for the fans regardless of reaction, and that he wouldn't turn heel as he has so many children look up to and respect him.

Brock's a natural heel, he was a face for all of a few months in 2003 and it was dire. He's playing an amped up version of himself. They signed him for a select number of dates, they're going to use all of those up.

And if youy watched every RAW between Mania and ER you'd of seen him make Cena his bitch to the point where they had Cena almost be scared of Lesnar. They made Brock to be an unstoppable, unrelenting, ruthless monster. Can't put the guy much more over than that.

 

My point about the TNA was in regards to what Hancock said about Brock losing buys, that that was stupid logic. In terms of it being a flop though, again, it isnt. It added buys that otherwise wouldn't of come. You can't honestly imagine that a B PPV, 3 weeks after the fans have paid $60 for a better show 3 weeks previous, then will shell out another $30 for a Pay Per View with mostly rematches, and that Main Event. There's reasons WWE PPV figures have gone down in recent years, the recession, the rise of internet streams and the speed at which the shows are uploaded then etc. Fact is, without Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules would of probably done much worse than it did, the fact he was on the show made it up 36% from the previous years show. That's a positive.

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Guest Jimmy Redman

Whether or not the number is as good as it should have been or not, comparing WWE buyrates to UFC buyrates and calling ER a failure because Brock didnt add 500,000 buys to a WWE B PPV is quite frankly ludicrous.

 

This reminds me of the hysteria over the MITB buyrate. The Punk angle "only" added like 40% to the MITB buyrate. ONLY? Increasing business by over 40% is a failure now? I dont get it. But I think people see the number itself, "only" 139,000, it looks small, especially compared to the UFC buyrates they always hear about, and so it must have failed.

 

Extreme Rules increased 36% in North America from the year before, in an age where buys show on average a small decrease year-by-year. It is also the best post-Mania number (ER and Backlash before it) for both domestic and worldwide of the last SEVEN YEARS. And that includes 2006-08 when buys were on average 50% higher than they are now. It and Night of Champions '09 are the only B shows to crack 250,000 buys since 2008 apart from the big gimmick shows - HIAC and Chambers.

 

The point: in the context of the current environment, its a really good number.

 

People expecting miracle buyrates are only deluding themselves. There is a limit to what any one show is going to be able to do, especially a non-Mania show. We are in a downturn in business, and we are in a period where there are a million PPVs and people are increasingly less and less inclined to buy them, for a million reasons. And blame WWE for that all you want - its almost entirely their fault. But that is the climate they have created for themselves, and its not going to magically change overnight. One month's worth of something interesting isnt going to transform every single jaded fan into a PPV buyer and garner boom era numbers. All of the other roadblocks still remain. There are still too many shows, they still cost too much, they still dont build cards properly, they still have almost no starpower, they are still cartoony, they still drive away the PPV buying fanbase, they still dont make PPVs matter, they can still be streamed for free, still, still, still.

 

So you do the greatest angle ever, you bring in the biggest draw around, you put them on a B show in this climate - THIS is what its going to do. THIS is the ceiling. And that doesnt mean that the angle wasnt great, or that the guy isnt a draw, or that either of those shows were failures. They were up 41% and 36%, that isnt failure. But it just means, that is the best they can do under the circumstances. And if you want exponential increases, if they do, then they're going to have to either put a drawing attraction on Mania (The Rock, and hey look, the biggest number of all time!) or seriously change their entire product presentation.

 

And if you want to watch buyrate fluctuations of hundreds of thousands, go to Fight Forum.

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Guest HH-Evolution

Plus...not all of UFC's fans, those 500,000 you may be thinking of, are going to sacrifice their own potential dislike of a product that prides itself on choreographed fighting and bodybuilding world champs to see Brock Lesnar be booked against somebody like Cena.

 

They were NEVER going to attract that UFC hardcore crowd spike in their ratings with the product they put out.

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Guest The Beltster

Jesus Christ, some of you people really are stupid.

 

It WAS a bad buyrate, it was a massive disappointment within WWE, people who work there are admitting it, why can you?

 

Sometimes arguing with some of you becomes redundant, because you refuse to admit whats actually true. I wonder what your excuses will be when WWE buyrates dip below 100,000 average in the US in a few years. I'm sure you are preparing reasons for it now which excuse WWE and its bullshit booking of any of the blame.

 

:roll

 

There's reasons WWE PPV figures have gone down in recent years, the recession, the rise of internet streams and the speed at which the shows are uploaded then etc.
Arent you forgetting the most important ones: WWE sucks d*ck and the booking and characters are shit. People arent turning off because of the recession, they are turning off because it stinks! RAW is free, that has nothing to do with internet streams, and the ratings for that show are dropping all the time. Whats the excuse for that? Because internet streams and the recession have nothing to do with the ratings of a FREE TV show bottoming out.

 

Plus...not all of UFC's fans, those 500,000 you may be thinking of, are going to sacrifice their own potential dislike of a product that prides itself on choreographed fighting and bodybuilding world champs to see Brock Lesnar be booked against somebody like Cena.

 

They were NEVER going to attract that UFC hardcore crowd spike in their ratings with the product they put out.

Brock took the WWE audience with him to UFC, why's it so hard to think they would all come back with him along with some UFC fans? Edited by The Beltster
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Guest Jimmy Redman
Jesus Christ, some of you people really are stupid.

 

It WAS a bad buyrate, it was a massive disappointment within WWE, people who work there are admitting it, why can you?

 

Sometimes arguing with some of you becomes redundant, because you refuse to admit whats actually true. I wonder what your excuses will be when WWE buyrates dip below 100,000 average in the US in a few years. I'm sure you are preparing reasons for it now which excuse WWE and its bullshit booking of any of the blame.

 

:roll

 

I'm not excusing buyrates being down in general in any way. If you read my post I said it was WWE's fault for buyrates being in the toilet for the entire way that they present the product and fail to sell the shows. THEY SUCK AT IT. WWE WUZ WRONG. I'm laying it out for you, I AGREE.

 

My point is more about the unrealistic expectations on this show in particular, on its own. We are in a period where buyrates are in the toilet, as we're all agreed on. Who on earth is expecting them to be able to draw UFC numbers?

 

I mean, "WWE buyrates are in the sh*thouse, look at the sub-100k numbers, etc." is fine, and I AGREE. But I'm not arguing about that. Extreme Rules had an attraction and increased business as significantly as it ever could have done, and people are reacting like "36% increase, boy WWE screwed that up" or "Where are Brock's 500,000 UFC fans now?" and stuff. What an absurdly negative way to view it. Like, IT WORKED. They got MORE buys than before. One of the most successful B shows in recent memory. Its a good thing. To me its just a really odd thing, to use an example where they were actually successful to prove a point about how bad they are. And if we're not crediting this as being a successful show for WWE in 2012, then people's expectations for success are just grossly out of touch with reality, and they will never be met.

 

Wait until Over the Limit comes in at 70,000 domestic and then make the point, you know?

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Brock took the WWE audience with him to UFC, why's it so hard to think they would all come back with him along with some UFC fans?

 

The assumption there is that they left WWE when Brock did, which obviously they didn't they'd just watch both.

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Guest Jimmy Redman

Yeah I never understood the belief that just because Brock brought wrestling fans to UFC that they would follow him back to wrestling. Some should, no doubt. But the whole point is that they're the ones who have "grown out of" wrestling and moved onto being UFC fans who cant stomach wrestling anymore, at least in its current WWE 2012 form. They're not going to suddenly come right back and forget about why they left in the first place just because Brock is playing one of the characters.

 

Which in turn I guess goes to show that WWE are seriously losing their shirts by paying him so much money. But thats a whole other argument.

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