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Kurt Angle - greatness or lack thereof


Guest ADC

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Kurt Angle is Kurt Angle, that's his style, it's what he does, his gimmick is that he's a superworker. I haven't even given Dragon Gate the time of day, because it sounds really shite, I dunno if I could get into it.
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Guest Jimmy Redman

Its his style but its a bad style.

 

You cant really compare it to Dragon Gate or something, in terms of being spotty, because every company and country has its own wrestling universe. Matches are different in WWE to ROH, to puro, to lucha, to lucharesu, to deathmatches, and so on.

 

But Angle isnt a company, he's a wrestler. Wrestling in WWE and TNA, where finishers are important and they dont work spotfest, no selling matches unless they're cruisers. THAT is the universe he's supposed to be playing in, the same as everyone else, but he doesnt, he flagrantly disregards the rules of his environment so he can throw all of his movez and kickouts in, in search of pops and snowflakes.

 

If Angle was a puro worker, or a lucharesu worker, or a Joshi worker, or an ROH worker, he'd be a lot more effective because what he does fits more with those styles. But doing it in WWE and TNA is just incongruous, it just makes his finishers meaningless, which is not an effective way to wrestle in those companies.

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Guest The Beltster

I wouldnt say all of the RVD/Lynn matches were just moves for the sake of moves. They had some damn good matches. There are plenty ECW matches I'd class as 5 star classics to be honest.

 

And we can say Kurt Angle doesnt fit in WWE or TNA and so on, but fact remains Angle has had some of the best matches in WWE history and he hasnt been too shabby in TNA either.

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Guest The Beltster
Yeah its weird, I'm not sure when it happened but somewhere along the line Angle went from being an internet darling to a guy smarks love to hate on. I think its when he left WWE and went to TNA. No idea why, he isnt much different now than he was then.
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Guest Ciaran The King
True, Angle was WWE's premier worker for years but for some reason fans just disrespect him and say he was overrated. And then he went on to have top quality matches with many in TNA and even now he pulls it out of the bag when he needs to. A true wrestler and entertainer in every sense of the word
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The first time I started noticing a real dislike towards Angle was around the build up to the first Michaels match. I don't think fans liked him being put over as a great wrestler, even though he was very highly rated by fans at that point. The consensus swung and he's now hated on by many. That seems to be the way with wrestling fans, who are often very contrarian.
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Guest Ciaran The King
The original HBK/Angle feud was a clear indication of how good Angle was as a star. His whole treatment of that build up and WM match was first class
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Guest Jimmy Redman

To be fair to myself, I have never particularly liked Angle. I'm sure we could go back to my noob days where I was making threads about Angle being overrated (and STEALING THE ANKLE LOCK FROM KEN SHAMROCK! :lol Sometimes I hate my teenage self).

 

I dont know when you'd be able to say Angle backlash started. Pretty much any big star is going to have some people who arent on board. On a small scale I think it grew out of the SD Six period and 2003 which was when the Kurt Angle Match was born and developed so you eventually have people getting tired of it and rejecting it, then there was a certain backlash during the Shawn series (since the matches were so infuriating), and it took a big hike when he went to TNA since he got exponentially more Kurt Angleish with the freedom of TNA.

 

Its not about being contrarian, to me that suggests calculation, like people are saying they hate popular things just to be cool or hipster or something. Take it from me as a possessor of seemingly infinite minority opinions on wrestling; all it actually is in the vast majority of cases, is people who like something that you dont like, or in this case dislike something that you like. There's no conspiracy.

 

But when it comes to things that make up the sort of accepted wisdom of our community, people seem to get really hung up when someone has an opinion that goes against it. I'm talking about the greatness of guys like Kurt Angle, Shawn Michaels or Ric Flair, or the not-so-greatness of guys like John Cena, Hulk Hogan or Mark Henry, or the idea that workrate and match quality is about athleticism and smooth performance of moves, and therefore the idea that athletic workers are inherently better than others. When people feel differently it seems like they're accused of making it up or "being contrarian", instead of just having a different view. Because all the above accepted wisdom is is just one view on wrestling. Its not the indisputably right one and its not the only one.

 

I mean, its really not the only one. You go to the DVDVR, and along with all of the 'Angle sucks, Mark Henry rules' stuff that I largely agree with, the accepted wisdom there is that Shawn Michaels was a rubbish wrestler, at least in the 2000s. I think they're completely insane. But thats what they think. There are people around the internet who think absolutely anything and everything when it comes to wrestling.

 

People just like and dislike different things. That is absolutely inevitable when we're talking about art. There's no right or wrong answer to what entertains you.

 

So I mean, getting back to Angle, when I read the last page and its all "the fact remains that he's had some of the best matches in WWE history" and that "people in the know" accept that he's great, and its like, no, the fact doesnt remain at all since match quality isnt a fact, and no, I am in the know as much as anyone here and I dont think he's that good. Thats all it is, I just disagree. I'm not blind to his greatness or refusing to like him or just trying to be different. I just dont like what he does, I like other stuff.

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Guest Jimmy Redman

Yeah, in my opinion its a bad style. Thats pretty clear.

 

Lets not get into "thats only your opinion" again. Assume everyone is giving their own opinion, thats just common sense because...they are. We dont need "IMO" on every statement we all make to know that.

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"I have never particularly liked Kurt Angle" Sign number one that you're a Cena fanboy.

 

Well how does it work that I don't like Kurt Angle or John Cena then??

 

Your argument is flawed, sir, flawed!!

 

EDIT: I don't know why this always happens, but why does not liking one person somehow automatically mean you like someone else? That's like saying "Oh you don't like Orton, well that obviously means you're a Yoshi Tatsu fanboy". It makes no sense?!

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Guest Jimmy Redman

It is a pretty silly thing to say.

 

But at the same time, I can agree that it does say something about my taste in wrestling. Insert your own joke here. But I mean in terms of their respective styles and ways of working, they are at fairly opposite ends of the spectrum and I definitely lean more towards the end that is based around storytelling and babyface work and selling and getting less out of more, rather than athleticism and highspots and moves and 'top this'.

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