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Hulk Hogan killed wrestling: discuss


Guest ADC

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Tried watching those two Race/Hogan matches on the first page, lost my patience with both in the opening moments, Hogan is a total cartoon character.

 

Suspension of disbelief? Kayfabe? Psychology? Oh, who cares about them things, right?

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Guest Jimmy Redman

You think Hogan didnt have psychology? Jesus.

 

Wrestling is cartoony by nature. There's no fundamental difference between Hulking Up and Flair Flops, except you prefer one wrestler and one style over the other.

 

But getting angry at Hogan being cartoony is like getting angry at water for being wet. If you expect something else, you're just not getting it.

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Hogan was much better in the late 70's/early 80's, before Hulkamania kicked off, when he was a heel and what not, before he turned into a goofy no selling, burying prat.
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Guest Jimmy Redman
Pre-Hogan he was just any other heel really. Nothing remarkable or particularly good about him. Comparing that to his Hulkster work seems preposterous, even if you dont like Hogan.
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What is there to tell? The evidence speaks for itself. Vince Jr and his WWF no doubt had a huge part of it, but for the most part, "the magic is over" as Bobby Heenan has said in a shoot, and it can never be brought back now, the cat is well and truly out of the bag.
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Guest Jimmy Redman
What on earth are you talking about? Kayfabe? You're saying Hogan is singularly responsible for the downfall of kayfabe?
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Guest Jimmy Redman

Hogan single-handedly gimmickised wrestling about as much as Vince McMahon single-handedly took it out of smoke filled halls and into arenas.

 

Hogan didnt kill kayfabe. People thought wrestling was fake well before Hogan was even born. Kayfabe was always going to die in an age like ours where information spreads at a rate of knots.

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Yeah, i'm pretty sure Thesz and Gorgeous George used to routinely sell out smoke filled halls...

 

Anyway, that was more of a timing issue, 'arenas' didn't really get big until the time when Junior took over, anyway. Wrestling was fine before VKM, he wasn't some sort of saviour.

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Guest Jimmy Redman
Yeah, thats what I'm saying, its bullsh*t, just like Hogan being the first guy to act cartoony and thus killing kayfabe is bullsh*t.
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No, Hogan just took it to a whole new level of gimmickry. I don't mind a goofy character if there's the fundamental skill to back it up, Hogan was lacking in that skill department.
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Guest Jimmy Redman

Hogan wasnt lacking in skills. He had all the skills he needed. He had charisma, he could talk, he looked great, he could sell, put it all into a match, etc. and etc. If he didnt have skills he would not have become the BIGGEST STAR OF ALL TIME.

 

Just because a guy on the internet in the 2010s thinks he didnt have MOVEZ doesnt mean he sucked. The point of Hogan wasnt workrate. Thats what I keep saying. You're searching for smarky workrate in HULK HOGAN. Wrestling does not work like that.

 

And workrate has absolutely zero to do with the decline of kayfabe so I'm not sure what you're talking about other than finding new ways to say "I dont like Hogan." Which is fine, you dont like Hogan, whatever. You dont need to try to justify it by painting him as a failure or as an ineffective wrestler, because he was the furthest thing from either.

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Oh, he pisses all over Cena, to be fair, don't get me wrong, he could put the effort in on a big stage with a good opponent, and carry a rotten one if the occasion called for it, he made the effort when in Japan, primarily, it seemed like, but one had to judge wrestlers on their wrestling, surely. Hogan of course attracted a lot of fans, but you have to wonder how many he turned off during that process.
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Guest Jimmy Redman

Felt like this should be its own conversation.

 

How many he turned off? Few, if any. in comparison to the amount of fans he attracted to wrestling, certainly, and again the idea that you're trying to portray him as some sort of failure as a wrestler is beyond absurd when he's the most successful wrestler in history.

 

Again, you not personally liking his work is fine. You thinking that because you dont personally like his work that means nobody else did or should have either, is wrong. They are two separate conversations, you're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

 

You think Hogan sucked as a wrestler. Fine its all subjective.

You think Hogan killed wrestling. Incorrect and not supported by facts.

 

You dont see the difference?

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