Posted July 29, 201410 yr there is little interest in British wrestling itselfYou make a lot of good points, but I'd say the UK scene is at a peak of interest at the moment (at least since the WoS glory days).
July 29, 201410 yr Without TV is doesn't matter. I'd have to care about who I was watching to want to buy a ticket, I dont care about any British wrestlers because I have no idea who they are. Do they even do story lines and angles in British wrestling and if so, whats the point without TV to show them on. Its ok for the local fans who go every week and know whats going on, but for everybody else it doesn't mean anything.
July 29, 201410 yr I'd have probably agreed with you to some extent Belty having not been to an event recently for a promotion I'd heard of but not actually seen (ICW) and although there's always angles in whatever federation the fact that now everywhere has a website and streams some matches and plot twists etc it's not like you have to actually go to every show to know what's going on. It's no different than reading spoilers to know what happened in an episode you've missed. The issue for local/indie feds is getting people interested in the first place, I think once you've managed to get someone through the door once you've a good chance of keeping them as a fan.
July 29, 201410 yr What are the average attendances for UK shows? And who really likes to watch things streaming over the computer? Not many is the answer to both questions I'd imagine. If the UK scene is at a peak since the WOS days with no TV, low attendances and having to watch stuff on webcams, I'd say the UK scene isnt doing much at all.
July 29, 201410 yr ICW (and probably others I assume but I don't follow others) have weekly episodes of their show posted on you tube, so while they don't actually have a TV deal per say, they do have a TV product they are putting out every week, so it is possible to follow stories and angles. The production isnt WWE naturally, but its actually not bad at all and they do a really good job of recapping and letting you know exactly whats going on and why it's going on. Also with smart tvs you can watch you tube on the TV, I watched three episodes of ICW on my tv yesterday and it was no different to watching anything else, like I say you'd be surprised by the production. Not everyone has a smart tv, but I think with the amount of people who torrent these days and get tv shows that air in the states before here, people would be used to watching stuff on a laptop or PC. Just from personal experience I know I've done it plenty. Edited July 29, 201410 yr by Magic
July 29, 201410 yr Your opinion I guess. You just seemed to dismiss anything that doesn't have a TV deal as being non-existant, I don't think that's a fair or balanced view point. If you want to be a global wrestling company rivaling WWE then sure, you need TV but just because something doesn't have it now doesn't mean in the current bracket it falls into it's not doing well or improving or gaining foothold to fans. Also, I'd highly suspect that a large proportion of fans watch streaming video of WWE shows. I do. I don't care about watching WWE live and paying for the privilege. Sure maybe I have to watch it in 480p sometimes but really what am I losing there? A bit of picture quality over paying for Sky Sports monthly for a program I'm going to Sky Plus and watch later anyway?
July 29, 201410 yr Your opinion I guess. You just seemed to dismiss anything that doesn't have a TV deal as being non-existant, I don't think that's a fair or balanced view point. If you want to be a global wrestling company rivaling WWE then sure, you need TV but just because something doesn't have it now doesn't mean in the current bracket it falls into it's not doing well or improving or gaining foothold to fans. Also, I'd highly suspect that a large proportion of fans watch streaming video of WWE shows. I do. I don't care about watching WWE live and paying for the privilege. Sure maybe I have to watch it in 480p sometimes but really what am I losing there? A bit of picture quality over paying for Sky Sports monthly for a program I'm going to Sky Plus and watch later anyway?My point is, if UK wrestling is at its highest peak since the WOS days (DC's words, not mine so I have no idea) and they dont even have a TV deal in the UK, then Im saying that peak doesnt seem to be anything to brag about. And you say I'm acting like these companies are non-existant without TV, ok, but you're acting like they are doing great without TV. Cant be that good if you are drawing a couple hundred people. They screened some old Disney films down here on the huge screen in town, I imagine that drew more than UK wrestling shows. Also, back in the late 80's and early-to-mid 90's, wrestling shows would be held monthly down here, Brian Dixon would always be here, they would advertise with posters, in the newspapers, on the local news on TV etc. None of that anymore, I havent seen him run a show down here in God knows how long and if he is, his advertising is sh*t. They had no TV deal then but the touring was very good, very regular and extremely popular. Now its pretty much dead. Wrestling in general is doing poorly, TNA have international TV (well, for the next few weeks at least) and cant draw 400 people. So to expect some local UK feds to be anything other than what they are is stupid anyway. And I'd be willing to bet its not a large amount of wrestling fans watching streaming shows. If anything, they wait until the next morning and download it in 1080p, nobody wants to wait up until 1am to watch some horrific quality crap on some website where it cuts out or has to keep buffering when they can go to sleep and watch it the next day crystal clear for free on the 60" TV. The only show I watched over stream all year was WM and thats only because Hogan was on it, if he wasnt I wouldnt have even bothered. I'd be shocked if 20% of wrestling fans regularly streamed content. Edited July 29, 201410 yr by The Beltster
July 29, 201410 yr I see no difference between downloading and streaming, in fact there isn't any really at least in terms of saying how important TV is compared to allowing peple to download/stream stuff as a cheaper more readily available option to TV for an indie fed. Personally I tend to stream rather than download because I watch once and then that's it. I watch it, digest it and then it's gone. Why wait for it to download when you can just stick it on and watch it. I;'m not really talking about Live streaming as you say buffering tends to be horrible for pirate streams and again I;m not going to pay tio stream something from a company I can eventually stream or download for free within a couple of days. That said having been to an ICW show I'm likely to buy the DVD for that show and I'm now actively keeping up with the story lines as I plan the next time I'll go see them. The WWE can't do that for me right now. So who is doing better? Well, WWE but you get my point ;) I've seen more action in the UK scene forum lately than I have for a long time, I know that's just one tiny barometer but I think to say that just because there's no WoS equivalent on TV means that UK wrestling isn't getting bigger isn't a great yardstick.
July 29, 201410 yr I think the problem is the word peak. Whilst the UK scene is growing and certainly doing better than it did for ages, its not peaked yet and I think with ICW and PROGRESS we're going to see more and more progression. They are both on an upward curve but they haven't reached the top yet, far from it. It's worth remembering that what keeps ICW off TV and on youtube is the product they present more than anything. It's violent, bloody, full of terrible language. The live shows are 18+. They had a TV deal but got kicked off for being all those things I mention. Going back to attendances, ICW sell out the O2 ABC which is about 1100 I think. They sold out the Picturehouse which is about 1000 and when the play smaller venues at around 400-600 they'll sell out weeks in advance, often without a match on the car even been announced. They've also announced a show ate the Barrowlands for November for their equivalent of Wrestlemania that will smash their record attendance. I'm not sure what the Barrowlands holds for wrestling but it'll be far their biggest show they've ever done. Goes back to what I was saying really, these feds are growing and doing really well, but there is still lots to come. Edited July 29, 201410 yr by Magic
July 29, 201410 yr I'd cringe to compare the modern UK scene with the WOS era, as the latter pretty much died out completely save for a few stubborn survivors that limped on through the 90's and the former was built on the efforts of promoters and wrestlers who came to the thing from an interest in US wrestling more often than WOS era stuff. The only real connection aside from veterans who managed to keep going through the wilderness in-between are the training schools that were set up before the collapse and turned out some of the first wrestlers of the new generation that's around now. Edited July 29, 201410 yr by Kam
July 29, 201410 yr I see no difference between downloading and streaming, in fact there isn't any really at least in terms of saying how important TV is compared to allowing peple to download/stream stuff as a cheaper more readily available option to TV for an indie fed. Personally I tend to stream rather than download because I watch once and then that's it. I watch it, digest it and then it's gone. Why wait for it to download when you can just stick it on and watch it. I;'m not really talking about Live streaming as you say buffering tends to be horrible for pirate streams and again I;m not going to pay tio stream something from a company I can eventually stream or download for free within a couple of days. That said having been to an ICW show I'm likely to buy the DVD for that show and I'm now actively keeping up with the story lines as I plan the next time I'll go see them. The WWE can't do that for me right now. So who is doing better? Well, WWE but you get my point ;) I've seen more action in the UK scene forum lately than I have for a long time, I know that's just one tiny barometer but I think to say that just because there's no WoS equivalent on TV means that UK wrestling isn't getting bigger isn't a great yardstick.Theres a difference between downloading and streaming...I wouldnt buy a show and watch it online as its streaming, but I'd download it later and watch it without the hassle of quality or interference issues. Why download instead of stream? Because I like to keep it in the same way as you dont. But this is neither here nor there really and it comes down to the term peak. It might be gaining interest (although again, from a local standpoint of where I'm at, wrestling has never, EVER been weaker) but to say this is a peak, without any TV (which I think you need for a peak), I cant see it. There was a UK fed that had a TV show for a little while back in the late 90's on some obscure Sky channel, but it was so shit it was gone after probably 2 months. I think wrestling has gotten to the point where its old hat, they really need to change something about the entire thing to get people really flocking for it again. The last show I took the kids to over here ended up being a really crap WWE tribute show with a 5'9" skinny bloke wearing what looked like Kane's pyjamas wrestling another guy in a rubbish Undertaker costume. It was wretched.
July 29, 201410 yr There was a UK fed that had a TV show for a little while back in the late 90's on some obscure Sky channel, but it was so shit it was gone after probably 2 months. I think wrestling has gotten to the point where its old hat, they really need to change something about the entire thing to get people really flocking for it again. The last show I took the kids to over here ended up being a really crap WWE tribute show with a 5'9" skinny bloke wearing what looked like Kane's pyjamas wrestling another guy in a rubbish Undertaker costume. It was wretched. I respect your argument, and the UK scene truly does have a long way to go before it can be compared favourably to anything the US, Japan or Mexico produces or anyone gets a regular slot on primetime TV. But on the other hand there is a distinct and growing divide between what you describe with the clownish tribute shows and the actual promotions such as ICW, PCW, Southside and Progress, which are garnering a following and respect as somewhere for both British and international stars of the indie scene to work. Though I readily concede that as none of this is going on within a hundred miles of the mainstream, there's no reason whatsoever that you'd have heard of any of it.
July 29, 201410 yr Yep, honestly never heard of any of them and thats not even as only a mainstream thing, I follow wrestling online and look at the news sites etc and I've still never heard of any of them.
July 29, 201410 yr Yep, honestly never heard of any of them and thats not even as only a mainstream thing, I follow wrestling online and look at the news sites etc and I've still never heard of any of them. Believe me, we live under a stone. But it's a very nice stone, and amazing things happen beneath it...
July 29, 201410 yr I guess it depends on the dirt sheet or website. even without this website I would have still heard of both Progress and ICW but there you go. Do you follow any UK stuff on Twitter Belty? Or Facebook? Follow any UK wrestlers etc? I wouldn't have heard of Progress without happening to be following Mad Man Manson's Facebbok page (which is awesome by the way). I think british wrestling is also helped everytime someone like Prince Devitt or Adrian Neville get a call up from the WWE as I think it sends people looking for old videos and getting to know the companies. Though saying that I had no idea Drew Mac was ICW's first ever champion so it is swings and roundabouts. I guess I'm saying that even without TV there's a lot of ways to get exposure compared to just posting flyers around town.
July 29, 201410 yr No I dont follow any British wrestlers on Twitter or FB, I dont really even know of any. I thought Prince Devitt was a Yank :/ As for flyers, to be fair, they used to get all of us packed into the Guild Hall in town decades before the advent of the internet and Twitter and mobile phones etc. Nothing wrong with the ol poster in a shop window technique! :lol
July 29, 201410 yr Though saying that I had no idea Drew Mac was ICW's first ever champion so it is swings and roundabouts. Neither did I! It might be cold comfort after being future endeavoured, but at least there's something for those guys to come back to nowadays. Imagine Drew MacIntyre making a surprise return to ICW, the attention that it'd generate.
July 29, 201410 yr Neither did I! It might be cold comfort after being future endeavoured, but at least there's something for those guys to come back to nowadays. Imagine Drew MacIntyre making a surprise return to ICW, the attention that it'd generate. He's back
July 29, 201410 yr He's back Indeed he is: [video=youtube;k6ZmBknQcFg] Edited July 29, 201410 yr by dsrchris