What is British wrestling lacking

[Guest Adam Sibley]

Now I do praise and talk up the UK Scene a lot as you should already know by now but I admit not everything is prefect with it but I think you can say that about every wrestling promotion anywhere in the world.

 

The question I pose to you is what is it lacking what is the ingrediant missing that would help them get a TV contract.

 

Personally I think it is lacking good character wrestlers who are totally at home in their character. The one guy though who has impressed me on that front this year has been "The Duke of Danger"

 

When I go to a lot of the shows I go to I see a lot of good wrestlers but they either have a non existant character and are just coming out as a wrestler or if they do have a character it needs working.

 

Although most internet fans would disagree and say it is going back to the old world of sport days and shouldn't relive some of the cringe factors but I think a handful of over the top characters if used correctly could help in getting a contract. As most tv companies outside sport and news want entertainment and want the product to have the broadest possible scope for fans possible.

 

As long as they could wrestle well I think more characters should be utilized more like i am quite impressed with Baxter Burridge he plays his homosexual character extremely well and hope he gets a push over the next year but will have to wait and see on that front.

[Dead Crow 370]

K, I'm brainstorming as I go along here so I apologise for the babble.

 

Although not a major thing, I have one about country identity, but as I am the patriotic person I am, I'd like at least something to be different from the US indy feds (not this stupid yellow/red card system) that just says "wow, this is something I can't find on the US indy circuit". But thats just me.

 

I think it also needs new ideas. Showstealer... can you say UK Rocky? J:X... Mikey Whipwreck wannabe? Jonny Storm... Juvi minus E? The ability is unquestionable, but everything seems to be with american ideas, even in storylines. I don't mind americanised production or the way you run it, but when your characters are poor mans WWE or ECW wannabes? Credit to Duke of Danger for his character, but thats about it.

 

 

I'll think of more later. As much as we'd like to think, UK wrestling is nowhere near ready for the big time, or even the medium time (if there even is such thing).

[Guest Jayden]

Realistically, quite a lot.

 

People complain that it tries to be too American. Reality check time, American's do professional wrestling better than we do. That's not really opinion, it's fact. What's wrong with trying to steal ideas from something that works?

 

UK Wrestling is stuck in the middle. Nowhere nearly as good as the US stuff outside of the ring, interviews/personality/promos/angles/creativity etc. Not nearly as good in the ring in terms of pure wrestling as in Japan.

 

They can for the most part go in the ring, but outside of it. Even the best would get no mic time in the States.

 

thing is, British wrestling isn't that good. In the ring they are fine but.........Nobody has personality, nobody has character, any kind of interview/promo/angle outside the ring type segment just blows totally, production is all awful, no tv deals, bunch of two bit companies, for gods sake, how can people be expected to pretend the british scene is excellent?

 

There is so much talent in this country, and I really can't believe that as a nation we are that ridiculously lacking in character and charisma that we can't make our product watchable and entertaining to uk tv audiences. right now though, the fact is that we can't.

[Guest Cactus Jack]

Does anyone find that, when UK wrestlers, apart from Regal and Davey, make you cringe when they speak? Perhaps its because were used to the American accent?

[Dead Crow 370]

Even though we watch Eastenders more times than wrestling a week and they have british accents (apart from Vicki who has a cringe-worth american accent).

 

I dunno though.. british accents are a bit cringing on the micropohne, cas no one actually puts a voice on to sound better like Undertaker and so on do. Only Drew McDonald makes his voice deeper and more scarier, and it pays off because he sounds decent out there.

[Guest Cactus Jack]

Am I right in saying you agree with me? I was sure I was the only one who thought that way!

[Guest Adam Sibley]

OK character work yes I agree we need a few more stronger characters but their are some good mic workers out there like u say drew mcdonald is good, dean ayass is damn good and Alex Shane is also damn good on the mic so we do have some people who could hold their own on the mic.

 

The one thing I have to comment about though is at the moment out of the ring interviews/promos arent used that much as there is no british fed on tvcurrently and coupled to the fact that a lot of fans go to events not knowing the storylines currently happening only serve purpose to the hardcore fans. So how can you judge things like that when they arent hardly used on uk shows and rightfully so.

 

One thing I do say amem to though is we need to be more proud to be british and to change the old stereotype of british wrestling.

[Guest TsuMirren]

"One thing I do say amem to though is we need to be more proud to be british and to change the old stereotype of british wrestling."

 

Which stereotype is that? The one where American and Japanese promotions used to send guys across here to learn their craft and would take over UK talent without that talent having to go crawling on their hands and knees? If you mean the stereotype of "Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks" then it's really only people who'll never go to a UK show anyway who see that as "British Wrestling". Although, in saying that, Giant Haystacks had more dates Stateside than Alex Shane currently has.

 

Perhaps it's the stereotype that actually led to the term "British style" being coined in the first place?

 

The ability to work is being lost, because Americans are being used to promote shows and actual work is being replaced by spots. Prime example being that around 700 will go watch FWA/RoH in London, but only 65 bother their arse to go see a FWA Academy show. It's getting to the point where even the FWA will begin to suffer, as casual fans will look at Academy talent and ask why the FWA need to fly over 4 or 5 guys when the Academy is supposedly filled with talent. Even when at the show, they see a number of possible injuries which it's impossible to believe if they've read the Shooting Gallery. So, what you're left with is a group of fans waiting for a big big BIG balcony spot, with "effect injury" and a number of Americans booked to come over.

 

Also, exactly how do you display your pride in being British whilst systematically changing the style of wrestling that used to be respected worldwide. There's a reason why UK workers are struggling to get Stateside and that is that they work a too US style. Why would a US promotion bring over someone with exactly the same style as what's already available there?

 

Draven actually stated that some British workers sound TOO British...How the hell does that work then? Guys should sound more American so that UK fans will like them? What people fail to realise is that UK workers get booked Stateside because they either offer something different or they offer the easily hated Brit worker. What I also don't believe is that during a time when British Promotions and workers are obviously impressing Stateside...I cite the FWA and Hammerlock as the promotions and guys like Storm, Fleisch, Doug Williams, James Tighe, Majik, Conscience, Mossy, Garry Steele, Paul Vault and even Karl Harker and Paul Parisio as the workers...people are saying the British scene should become more Americanised. Has nobody noticed that the American style of shows haven't exactly been a major success on Terrestrial TV?

 

You even have guys like Adam Windsor, James Mason and "Highlander" Rob McManus...a Hart Dungeon graduate...impressing and working in American or Japan. Somehow, something tells me it's not because they can cut a 20 minute promo, leap off of a balcony or remember 5 minutes of chain wrestling.

[Guest Walshy]

The complaints about characters are just silly, how can you build a character without TV, while some fans will follow these things via the internet alot won't, so whats the point in having a huge heel if at every show no one knows it.

 

People who complain about the promo's, and the production then simply where do you get the money from, if there was a TV deal that would offer a bigger budget then there would be more money spent on production and so the quality would improve.

 

At the end of the day the only thing British Wrestling is lacking is the finance to produce great shows, that will only come from a TV deal, and the TV deal will only come from great shows, so the UK scene is stuck in a loop at the moment.

[Guest FTW]

Originally posted by Walshyboy

The complaints about characters are just silly, how can you build a character without TV, while some fans will follow these things via the internet alot won't, so whats the point in having a huge heel if at every show no one knows it.

 

I completely agree. You could put alot of effort making one wrestler a monster at one show, by beating ten lumps of crap out of almost every guy on the roster, then after going half way across Britian the whole thing wouldnt mean diddly squat.

 

Also angles would be very hard to get across. Say for instance you had a 'Guerrero / Team Angle ' angle going on and the one team stole the titles from another. When they come out on set with the titles the crowd wouldnt have a clue what is going on, minus a few. Also, if at another show, a wrestlers vallet went off with another guy and at the next show the match was going to take place. It would be hard for the crowd to relate as they probably never saw the two together (wrestler & vallet) before. So her screwing him over would have no effect on the crowd response at all.

 

 

Originally posted by Walshyboy

People who complain about the promo's, and the production then simply where do you get the money from, if there was a TV deal that would offer a bigger budget then there would be more money spent on production and so the quality would improve.

 

At the end of the day the only thing British Wrestling is lacking is the finance to produce great shows, that will only come from a TV deal, and the TV deal will only come from great shows, so the UK scene is stuck in a loop at the moment.

 

Hopefully this new sky channel (Combat Sports or something) will help to change this. But it will take time, and seeming as no station is willing to take a chance on British wrestling then how can it improve?

 

That is the key question.

 

Another way to increase finance would be to put on a tours. If the tours were to do well, then the financial situation could improve and show production could improve, making a TV Station take notice and take a chance.

 

But another problem lies in the fact that how many people are willing to pay £15 to go see a show of British wrestlers, when the whole thing has been dumped upon for so long. Also with the WWE rip-off shows which tour the UK making a mockery out of the serious promotions, the chances are slim.

 

There is a genuine want for wrestling in the UK. Try getting a ticket for the next WWE show in the UK. They sell out very fast and always do very well. If a british promotion could capture a quater of that interest on their tour then the wheels may start turning and a promotion may start to make a name for itself, but untill something happens to capture the imagination of the British public about the UK wrestling sence, not alot will happen.

[Dead Crow 370]

Originally posted by TsuMirren

Draven actually stated that some British workers sound TOO British

 

I didn't, actually. But please yourself.

 

I actually said that the wrestlers don't put voices on. You notice most workers even in the WWE cut promos with a different toned voice to their normal everyday voices, whether a bit deeper or even a hint changed. With the exception of Drew McDonald and Alex Shane, no one else seems to do that. In theory, it wouldn't be that big of a problem. But some of the promos did really sound awful from what I've heard.

 

Accent really has nothing to do with it. Hell, go find me a japanese accent or mexican accent or even a friggin' russian-indian-jamacian accent rolled in one. It's not what the accent is, but how the voice sounds. Whether it's the fault of production (which could be logically a fair answer) or just the fact that the individuals are simply awful on the mic is another matter. But accent is no problem to me.

 

I don't see why these guys can't get a bit of vocal coaching though. Since a TV deal is *oh so* nearing, they might as well prepare to become more versatile on the mic and in front of a camera.

 

 

The complaints about characters are just silly, how can you build a character without TV, while some fans will follow these things via the internet alot won't, so whats the point in having a huge heel if at every show no one knows it.

Well why not ask FWA why they have faces and heels and storylines and stables in the first place? The majority of FWA fans are pretty much internet fans, and the rest know by word of mouth, that would surely tell you of the goings on and you can see it and make your own mind up.

 

 

 

Sorry if my "finding something wrong with UK wrestling" is a problem to you guys.. but the question clearly says "what is needed" so there you go. Just my opinion. Might not be as worthy as the wrestling promotors opinions or the hardcore UK fans opinions, but there you go.

[Guest TsuMirren]

Draven,

 

I hate to point out the bloody obvious...but I will.

 

You stated that they don't put voices on, therefore you must by definition believe they then sound too British. Either that or you've no idea what you mean, which is quite possible I suppose.

 

Why should any British guy put on a US style voice to get over in the UK?

[Guest ......cjr......]

Becuase most of the UK fans are kids, and im sure 90% of them watch WWE. And im sure that if they sound like there fav wrestle as such they will get over more.

 

No offence to the scottish or irish here, but lets ask you this, a scottish man doing a promo or an american man? I dont need to ask for your opinions in getting over because an american would, only because they can handle the mic more. As i said before no offence intended to any scottish people or there accents. Maybe Rowdy Piper but the guy aint even scottish lol.

 

Anyways, UK wrestling needs gimmiks, and they need to stick to gimmiks. In the Indy scene, Jeff Jarrett cant go to lets say WWA and performe under the chosen one gimmik and go back to his NWA TNA gimmik, it will just suck, And he wont stay in character. The problem with UK wrestlers is they dont earn enough money in wrestling so they need to get a job and its hard to keep your wrestling character in ryhem while you are at work? anyone see Birchell going around kicking ass at his work? No i dont think so. The UK scene has it hard, and i always think it will have it hard. No matter if TV deals occur, no matter what. Ill post more later im quite busy at the moment. Anyways...

 

CJR

[Dead Crow 370]

Originally posted by TsuMirren

Draven,

 

I hate to point out the bloody obvious...but I will.

 

You stated that they don't put voices on, therefore you must by definition believe they then sound too British. Either that or you've no idea what you mean, which is quite possible I suppose.

 

Why should any British guy put on a US style voice to get over in the UK?

 

Because maybe their voices sound crap talking plain? Now THERE'S a possiblity, no? Or.. or... maybe... just MAYBE, even actors in movies put on voices to sound more like their character, more harder, more like a strong, powerful wrestler, not a normal everyday wuss. Afterall, wrestling is almost like theatre, only with more pain, respect, athletisism, and more crowd involvement. So therefore, considering a lot of shows around the country are watched by children who like larger-than-life characters (one thing that Vince McMahon pushed so majorly over the years to a lot of success) plus adults who themselves enjoy seeing a bit of theatrics mixed into it, I'm just saying that it would probably SOUND a bit better. Of course, having been exposed majoritily (is that a word?) to the US scene all my life, and not being old enough to have your respect, I probably sound like a s***talking idiot. But take it how you want. I never once said anything about the accent, and never said it should become americanised. Whether it's you genuinly misconstruing my words or just looking to pick a fight with someone younger because they know nothing unlike you, it doesn't matter. As I said, you can take anyone from any country, it will all be the same. Being "too" british has little or nothing to do with it, at least in my opinion.

 

Anything else?

Edited June 2, 2003 by DraVen

[Guest Adam Sibley]

Which stereotype is that? The one where American and Japanese promotions used to send guys across here to learn their craft and would take over UK talent without that talent having to go crawling on their hands and knees? If you mean the stereotype of "Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks" then it's really only people who'll never go to a UK show anyway who see that as "British Wrestling". Although, in saying that, Giant Haystacks had more dates Stateside than Alex Shane currently has

 

That is the stereotype of wrestling fans I meant the general public as my thread post was relating to getting it back on tv. Most peoples outside of wrestling fans yes a such world does exist scarily enough think of three things when it comes to british wrestling, pantomime, big wrestlers and old grannies