Dead Space: Survival Horror? ***Split from 'What Are You Playing?' thread***

[DC 536]

Anyone whose played a game like Silent Hill 2 which is a real survival horror game and cringes when these action games like Dead Space masquerade as Survival Horror just because it has a horror motif.

You are literally the only person I've heard/read that would say Dead Space isn't a survival-horror game. The way you've worded this post comes across as a tad elitist with an "I know better than you" attitude.

To me a REAL shooter is a FPS. Okay, you have some exceptions with the likes of Gears of War, although Dead Space doesn't compare slightly to a shooter just because Issac fights the Xenophobes with (surprise surprise) guns.

The thing is, they're not guns, they're industrial tools that Isaac has turned into weapons, adding fuel to the "adapting to survive" element to the game.

[Guest Dante Spears]

Just because you're in a third person perspective using guns in a survival horror doesn't make it a shooter over a survival horror just because there is guns involved however. What are you supposed to fight the monsters with? Blow up hammers?

A plank with a nail in it? Fists? Lead pipe? Anything that makes the monsters much more of a threat because you aren't equip to go up against them.

 

Guns can work in Survival Horror, easily. Give them a simple hand gun that somewhat resembles a real gun, that can clog or needs some time to reload, or that runs the risk of not actually hurting these unworldly monsters. Anything that makes you question whether or not shooting the enemy will be worth it because you run the risk of just pissing it off or alerting it you your position.

 

In Dead Space you walk right up to monsters and shoot them with a BFG that's not scary because you're on equal standing with the monsters. In RE4 you're armed to the teeth and the shotgun can basically reduce the entire hoard to piles of flesh in seconds. That's not scary either because you are immediately put above the threat that you face.

 

Also here's one more thing. In Silent Hill I've had a reason to care whether or not the writer, the clerk, the teenage girl or the moron survive. I have no reason to care about Issac Clarke, combine with the fact he is on equal standing with the monsters there's just nothing compelling about his survival. The only reason to play through is for the game play not because you care about the story.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Dante Spears

[DC 536]

Also here's one more thing. In Silent Hill I've had a reason to care whether or not the writer, the clerk, the teenage girl or the moron survive. I have no reason to care about Issac Clarke, combine with the fact he is on equal standing with the monsters there's just nothing compelling about his survival. The only reason to play through is for the game play not because you care about the story.

Are you saying that if you did care about Isaac, then Dead Space would suddenly be granted survival-horror status?

[Guest Saz]

Dante, don't you think you're being a tad snobbish with your definition survival horrors?

 

Seriously, it's just a genre, you try to survive and you'll probably have the bejebus scared out of you. There really is nothing else to add to further classify it!

 

Even Half-life is a survival horror!

[Guest Ruderz]

 

A plank with a nail in it? Fists? Lead pipe? Anything that makes the monsters much more of a threat because you aren't equip to go up against them.

 

Yes. Because the entire point of Dead Space was to get up close and personal with the Xenophobes who had nasty claws and the Brutes (I think that's there name anyway) who could easily crush you if you got too close. That makes sense! That goes for any survival horror game, your intention in one is to stay as far away from the monsters as possible! Not get up close and personal every fight.

 

Guns can work in Survival Horror, easily. Give them a simple hand gun that somewhat resembles a real gun, that can clog or needs some time to reload, or that runs the risk of not actually hurting these unworldly monsters. Anything that makes you question whether or not shooting the enemy will be worth it because you run the risk of just pissing it off or alerting it you your position.

 

And what about when the enemies get tougher? Sure, a simple handgun will be fine for your first few levels of monsters, but what about boss battles? You NEED more guns to fight different types of monsters. It was Bioshock's flaw, you could use the Wrench throughout the entire game and get through it fine. I refer you to DC's post earlier, where he mentions that the 'guns' are simply industrial tools that Issac has self created. This SCREAMS survival horror.

 

In Dead Space you walk right up to monsters and shoot them with a BFG that's not scary because you're on equal standing with the monsters. In RE4 you're armed to the teeth and the shotgun can basically reduce the entire hoard to piles of flesh in seconds. That's not scary either because you are immediately put above the threat that you face.

 

Oh yeah. Sure. Until you run out of ammunition in the middle of an intense fight. RE4 might have gave you many weapons, but ammo ran out quickly. Same can be said for Dead Space, the ammo ran out quickly. Okay, if you play on the easiest game mode then OF COURSE you're going to breeze through the game blasting everything in your path. But the easiest game mode wasn't how the game was meant to truly be played.

 

Also here's one more thing. In Silent Hill I've had a reason to care whether or not the writer, the clerk, the teenage girl or the moron survive. I have no reason to care about Issac Clarke, combine with the fact he is on equal standing with the monsters there's just nothing compelling about his survival. The only reason to play through is for the game play not because you care about the story.

 

So you're saying that because Issac Clarke actually fights the monsters with custom made weapons, you don't care if he lives because he's not completley helpless? C'mon Dante, I wish you'd stop comparing Dead Space to Silent Hill because obviously they are two very different games.

[Guest Dante Spears]

I'm saying it would help. You have to get emotionally involved with survival horror so likable characters that you actually want to see survive are a must. Why should I care about whether Issac survives other than I want to beat the game? He's just one big generic spaceman and there's no emotional connection.

 

It's not even the fact that he doesn't speak, look at Ico (Which under the loose classification, the fact you are surviving some scary monsters must also make it a Survival Horror game). We can't understand Yorda and Ico only ever really talks to the Queen, yet these two are still probably one of the best video game couples of all time and you actually want to see them escape the castle. You see two innocent kids who are trying to break themselves from this prison of a castle, your imagination lets you fill in the blanks thanks to the atmosphere.

 

Dead Space lacks atmosphere and pacing. Yes there's a scary ship with flickery lights but the monsters more often then not waltz over to you slowly screaming at the top of their lungs trying draw to all attention to themselves. And then you obliterate them with over the top BFG's. And once you get the Ripper you can clear out entire hoards of them, it's the same deal breaker as the Shotgun in RE4. That's not scary. Not even if you have no ammo because lacking this emotional connection all you care is "Oh crap I'm going to have to start over again". It's not scary because you're on equal standing with the with the monsters.

 

A good survival Horror game would let your brain do all or most of the work, make the monsters more of a threat in your mind then they actually are. If you have a gun that can go to toe with them then they aren't a real threat because you have the power to beat them. If all you have is a plank with a nail in it or a bad gun then you don't want to go rushing out and attacking them, you're at a disadvantage and your brain takes over and the monsters become worse then they actually are.

 

C'mon Dante, I wish you'd stop comparing Dead Space to Silent Hill because obviously they are two very different games.

I'm comparing it to Silent Hill because Silent Hill is considered by a lot the pinnacle of the Survival Horror genre, so it's a prime example of the genre. If I were more familiar with Alone in the Dark or Resident Evil I'd be using them as examples as well. And then you have something like Dead Space which is nothing, nothing like a true survival horror game despite trying to moonlight as one.

 

I have nothing against Dead Space, it;s a perfectly functional game. It's just not a survival horror game

Edited October 3, 2010 by Dante Spears

[DC 536]

Dead Space lacks atmosphere

Don't talk pish.

 

Dante, you're just going to have to admit that you're wrong because that's exactly what you are. Dead Space is a survival-horror game.

[Guest Dante Spears]

Don't talk pish.

 

Dante, you're just going to have to admit that you're wrong because that's exactly what you are. Dead Space is a survival-horror game.

 

It doesn't, it's one big walking cliche. Flickering lights on a broken down space station is about as cliched as you can get. There's nothing to fear because you know there's going to be hideous space monsters around every corner and you are equipped to go toe to toe on them. I never had ammo problems when I was playing it. It wasn't scary when the monsters jumped out at me, nor when they popped back to life all it did was startle which isn't scary or horror at all. And once again there's no freaking reason to care about Issac so no emotional connection to him so the environment isn't really an issue because it doesn't matter if the character dies outside of having to restart.

[Paul 584]

I'm saying it would help. You have to get emotionally involved with survival horror so likable characters that you actually want to see survive are a must. Why should I care about whether Issac survives other than I want to beat the game? He's just one big generic spaceman and there's no emotional connection.

 

 

Makes no difference if you felt 'emotionally connected'. I didnt to any of the Resident Evil characters, doesnt suddenly change what genre they are, nor does it change Dead Space.

 

Dead Space lacks atmosphere and pacing. Yes there's a scary ship with flickery lights but the monsters more often then not waltz over to you slowly screaming at the top of their lungs trying draw to all attention to themselves. And then you obliterate them with over the top BFG's. And once you get the Ripper you can clear out entire hoards of them, it's the same deal breaker as the Shotgun in RE4. That's not scary. Not even if you have no ammo because lacking this emotional connection all you care is "Oh crap I'm going to have to start over again". It's not scary because you're on equal standing with the with the monsters.

 

 

 

Unlike the hordes of zombies that you can see slowly coming at you that you can hammer down with your hands in the first Resi game (for example)?

 

 

 

A good survival Horror game would let your brain do all or most of the work, make the monsters more of a threat in your mind then they actually are.

 

You just described Dead Space, nice one.

 

If you have a gun that can go to toe with them then they aren't a real threat because you have the power to beat them.

 

The pistol in Resi was enough to go toe to toe with half a dozon zombies at once.

 

If all you have is a plank with a nail in it or a bad gun then you don't want to go rushing out and attacking them, you're at a disadvantage and your brain takes over and the monsters become worse then they actually are.

 

 

Exactly, and if all you have is a gun that looks big and impressive but actually is rather uneffective due to your enemies ability then you're just as screwed.

 

I have nothing against Dead Space, it;s a perfectly functional game. It's just not a survival horror game

 

Except it is and you are WRONG. You're basing you supposed fact of it not being SH on the fact that YOU werent scared, that YOU didnt connect with the character and that YOU didnt struggle with the game.

 

See why your 'facts' arent really solid yet?

[Guest Saz]

I think what Darkstar is trying to say is that the definition of survival horror is a game that has the need to survive and elements of horror in it that make the user either jump, or feel uncomfortable playing.

 

It does not mean it has the need to survive and elements of horror that Dante Spears agrees with.

 

By the way, Doom 3 scared the bejebus out of me at times and that was a definite survival game (basically your mission was to find a way out), so I'm putting that down as a survival horror too.

[Paul 584]

Post 14 gives the genrally accepted definition of a SH game. Dead Space ticks the boxes. I certainly agree that it has strong 'shooter' elements, heck Mark even says so in his first post. :lol

[Guest Ruderz]

I'm saying it would help. You have to get emotionally involved with survival horror so likable characters that you actually want to see survive are a must. Why should I care about whether Issac survives other than I want to beat the game? He's just one big generic spaceman and there's no emotional connection.

 

You play the game to see how the story plays out, which means if the character lives or dies etc. If you were playing it just for achievements only, then you clearly didn't like the game. If you cared about the story, then you cared about Issac.

 

It's not even the fact that he doesn't speak, look at Ico (Which under the loose classification, the fact you are surviving some scary monsters must also make it a Survival Horror game). We can't understand Yorda and Ico only ever really talks to the Queen, yet these two are still probably one of the best video game couples of all time and you actually want to see them escape the castle. You see two innocent kids who are trying to break themselves from this prison of a castle, your imagination lets you fill in the blanks thanks to the atmosphere.

 

Again, it's got nothing to do with the characters. I maybe didn't really care for Sheva in RE5, but I still thoroughly enjoyed the game and I would class that as a Survival Horror as well.

 

Dead Space lacks atmosphere and pacing. Yes there's a scary ship with flickery lights but the monsters more often then not waltz over to you slowly screaming at the top of their lungs trying draw to all attention to themselves. And then you obliterate them with over the top BFG's. And once you get the Ripper you can clear out entire hoards of them, it's the same deal breaker as the Shotgun in RE4. That's not scary. Not even if you have no ammo because lacking this emotional connection all you care is "Oh crap I'm going to have to start over again". It's not scary because you're on equal standing with the with the monsters.

 

There is NOT a lack of atmosphere in the game. Dante, it's becoming obvious that your opinion on the game is due to a lack of actually LIKING the game. Like Darkstar said, in the first resident evil games the zombies slowly walked towards you as you fired shot after shot into their bodies.

 

A good survival Horror game would let your brain do all or most of the work, make the monsters more of a threat in your mind then they actually are. If you have a gun that can go to toe with them then they aren't a real threat because you have the power to beat them. If all you have is a plank with a nail in it or a bad gun then you don't want to go rushing out and attacking them, you're at a disadvantage and your brain takes over and the monsters become worse then they actually are.

 

Exactly what Dead Space did.

 

I'm comparing it to Silent Hill because Silent Hill is considered by a lot the pinnacle of the Survival Horror genre, so it's a prime example of the genre. If I were more familiar with Alone in the Dark or Resident Evil I'd be using them as examples as well. And then you have something like Dead Space which is nothing, nothing like a true survival horror game despite trying to moonlight as one.

 

Fair enough apart from the end statement. I think your opinion on this game is made out of pure dislike for the game...

[Guest Dante Spears]

I don't like or dislike the game, like I said it was a perfectly acceptable game. I just don't like how it's moonlighting as a Survival Horror game when I grew accustom to Survival Horror as stuff like the Silent Hill series or Siren. I don't see how the imagination takes over in Dead Space, I always knew there'd be a monster around the corner and I'd have a BFG waiting to obliterate him. Again, take SH2 you can run around for a long period of time with out even seeing a monster, or take the beginning you're running yet there's something just slightly off about it. You hear a second set of foot steps behind you slightly, yet no matter what you can't locate them. Or you run around and your radio detects something yet you can't see anything and you run around looking for it but you just don't find anything. You spend all this time expecting to find monsters and you never do despite knowing they're there. In Dead Space you hear screams or see shadows and realize you'll be fighting some sort of monster in a second. I just couldn't accept that as scary or horror and I'm a freaking coward

[Guest Ruderz]

Doesn't the threat of being under constant attack scare you? Knowing that past every corner you're going to have to waste ammo on some monsters? The fact that around the next bend you could have a hallway full of Xenophobes charge you at the same time? The combat, if you played at any difficulty higher than easy, was not easy. Xenophobes (I Think that's their name?) charged you and covered the distance rather quickly, forcing you to react rather than plan out a way to tackle the fight.

[Paul 584]

Xenomorphs I believe. Xenophobes are people who dislike people from another country. :lol

[Guest Ruderz]

Xenomorphs, Xenophobes, I'm sure those bastard monsters in Dead Space were both :lol

[DC 536]

I just don't like how it's moonlighting as a Survival Horror game when I grew accustom to Survival Horror as stuff like the Silent Hill series or Siren.

You may have grown accustomed to a particular section of survival-horror covering the entire genré, but that doesn't make it so.

[Guest Dave7g]

It's survival horror, that's the end of it. Even Luigi's Mansion is classed as survival horror. It's like saying Forza isn't a racing game. It's a car painting simulator.

[Guest Dante Spears]

Luigi's Mansion is not a survival Horror game, it's an Action-Adventure game with a childish horror motif. Calling that a Survival Horror game is an insult to the genre.

 

I don't care what others say, it's not a freaking Survival Horror game. It's like Lite Mayonnaise, you can brand it as mayonnaise and on the surface it somewhat resembles it but it taste nothing like it and it isn't freaking mayonnaise. The whole definition of the freaking Genre has gone to hell to just be a game with "scary" monsters.

 

And no, Dead Space is not scary at all. All it does is startle. A real Survival Horror game would not have monsters stumble up to you in a brightly lit room, screaming at the top of their lungs. What the hell is scary about that? A real survival horror game would remove or scale back the monster element, making them a rare occurrence. The less you see of an enemy the more of a threat it becomes, in Dead Space they're around every corner and so anxious to be there they run up to you telegraphing everything. A Survival Horror game would just create an environment, hand you the stuff to f*** with your mind and sit back letting you do all the work. In Dead Space you're handed BFG's and run through all these predictable encounters. And then they weren't a threat because when I played it never once did I run out of ammo and I could just mow them down.

 

The entire premise of Dead Space is "You are this guy, there is this girl, you love her so you want to rescue you. Oh yeah there is monsters". The story sucks, the characters suck so I have no emotional connection which is essential for a survival horror game.

Like I said before the whole genre has gone to hell. If it is a Survival Horror game then it's a shallow rip off that bears no resemblance to what a Survival Horror game should be. It's a pretender, a rip off.

[Guest Dave7g]

Luigi's Mansion is not a survival Horror game, it's an Action-Adventure game with a childish horror motif. Calling that a Survival Horror game is an insult to the genre.

 

Let's see:

 

Haunted House...check

Ghosts and Supernatural entities...check

Scares/shocks...check

Exploration...check

 

You need to give us your definition of "Survival Horror", withought mentioning Silent Hill 2 or any other games, because they all do the same thing on different levels.