Kids and Santa: What Age the Truth?

[Paul 584]

Found this on another fourm:

 

 

I know this is silly as my son is 11 and at secondary school BUT we've tried very hard to keep this alive for him as long as possible. We just came back from Lapland and re-ignited our son's belief in Father Christmas, we met the reindeers and the great man himself. I really thought we might get one more Christmas with him believing - however, today, 11 days before Christmas, his literacy teacher goes and says "now I know you all know Father Christmas is not real".

 

What should I do, my son is really upset as he doesn't think he will get any presents (we told him that once you stop believing than the magic goes and there are no presents and the parents have to do it). How can a teacher tell a class of 11 year olds that it's not real. I am so angry, how dare a teacher take it upon herself to tell a class that it is not real. Right now I feel like making so much fuss as it has ruined the magic for our son and he will probably tell our daughter who is just 9 that it's not real too.

 

Any advice would be welcome.

 

I dunno, I dont blame the teacher as at 11 would expect kids to know about Santa, but what age is right for them to be told? Should you let a 13 year old belive? Or is 8 right?

[Guest Al Stevens]

He's still real to me damn it

[Guest Jimmy Redman]

What do you mean he's not real? :sad:

[Nimf 324]

Kids will usually find an age to stop believing. Unless you're like me and accidentally tell them...Richard knows he's not real, John still believes but I don't think he will for long (he's started asking lots and LOTS of questions) and obviously Josh doesn't have a clue. I think 11 seems a reasonable age to still be believing-kids these days don't get to stay innocent for any where near long enough. I think it was wrong of the teacher to say it-why did she need to? Not so much what she said, but the way she said it. Perhaps if she explained more about the story behind Father Christmas, then maybe the kid would have been able to work it out himself. Poor thing, thinking he wouldn't get gifts-that was Richards worry too, and mine as a child if I remember right. I was 9 when I found out, my sisters were 10.

 

What forum was that on by the way?

[DC 536]

Found this on another fourm:

 

 

 

 

I dunno, I dont blame the teacher as at 11 would expect kids to know about Santa, but what age is right for them to be told? Should you let a 13 year old belive? Or is 8 right?

I don't think so much that it's the age of the kid (in respect to this situation), more the fact the teacher was the one to confirm it to the 11yr old.

 

I would assume most 11yr olds know the (alledged) truth, but with hindsight being what it is, the teacher maybe should have checked with the parents first.

 

In our house, it's going to be Josh's first Christmas, so Santa doesn't really mean anything to him. Richard, who is 11, semi-believed last year, but is a fully-fledged non-believer this year. He is, however, keeping the dream alive for John, who is 7.

 

Richard actually thinks it's great that he is helping us "pretend" to his little brother.

 

 

 

EDIT - On a side note, it's all Coca~Cola's fault anyway.

[Nimf 324]

Oh and I told Richard the truth-not on purpose, a total accident, yet he still chose to semi believe for a few more years after that.

[Paul 584]

I don't think so much that it's the age of the kid (in respect to this situation), more the fact the teacher was the one to confirm it to the 11yr old.

 

I would assume most 11yr olds know the (alledged) truth, but with hindsight being what it is, the teacher maybe should have checked with the parents first.

 

 

On the first bit, maybe the parents should have told them already then. I cant speak for anyone else, but at 11 if you still belived at my school then the other kids would have made your life hell.

 

On part 2, should the teacher have to run everything past the parents? Is it their job to maintain a lie? I know you could put the same argument for religion, but that is taught more as ethics and knowledge of culture these days than a lesson of truth (except in religion specific schools).

[Guest Jimmy Redman]

I know you could put the same argument for religion, but that is taught more as ethics and knowledge of culture these days than a lesson of truth (except in religion specific schools).

 

I know its not exactly on topic, but I went to a religion specific school, and my religious studies were mostly the study of religions and knowledge, rather than being faith-based. Just as an aside.

[Guest A.C.]

On part 2, should the teacher have to run everything past the parents? Is it their job to maintain a lie? I know you could put the same argument for religion, but that is taught more as ethics and knowledge of culture these days than a lesson of truth (except in religion specific schools).

 

No exceptions. Maintaining a lie isn't what childrens' schools are for.

[Paul 584]

Except you dont KNOW its a lie. Just you belive it is. We KNOW Santa isnt real (at least in the way shown these days :P).

[Guest A.C.]

Except you dont KNOW its a lie. Just you belive it is. We KNOW Santa isnt real (at least in the way shown these days :P).

 

You're shifting the burden of proof. If someone says something exists it isn't up to the non-believer to prove them wrong.

 

What proofs are there of a creator/god/whathaveyou that can't be applied to Santa?

[Guest Gemsi]

I went believing in Santa until I was 12, although I kept things alive for my brother who was 10 and my sister who was 3. I didn't see the point in spoiling it for them. Not long after, my brother got told at school and then the next year he tried too convince my sister. Luckily he didn't manage too. I think my sister's probably been told now (she's 12 now), although last year she still believed.

 

Why not keep up that extra bit of innocent imagination for as long as possible. DS said kids would get bullied for it, suprisingly though neither me nor my brother got bulled for believing. Neither did my sister, though she doesnt even get bullied for being as chubby as Mrs Santa, so perhaps it's just the school we went too-they only bully gay and disabled people.

 

I celebrate Christmas, not as a sign of my faith. But because of the magic feeling it gives.

One of the teacher's who still teaches at the school, wouldn't accept most people believe in Christmas. If you gave him an xmas card he'd tear it up in front of you saying Santa's not real, and Jesus wasnt something too be celebrated. He got most kids crying, what a harsh way too be. You shouldn't force your beliefs upon anyone, but at the same time, you should have respect for what others believe.

 

I think the teacher who told that 11 year old, was wrong too. Up until the age of 13, you should be able too have your beliefs, without anyone trying too destroy them. When you can see the rights and wrongs of things-rather than just having your magic snatched away.

[DC 536]

Santa Claus existed (much in the same way Jesus existed) but the myth overtook the man.

 

The one big question is how can we tell kids that it's wrong to lie when we, as adults, have been lieing to them (not just a lie, but a massive worldwide deception) for between 7-11 years?

Edited December 18, 2007 by DC

[Guest The Beltster]

He's real and he shall be bringing me gifts this year as usual. Thats good enough for me. Plus, I saw him in the mall the other day, my own eyes dont lie.

[Guest A.C.]

Santa Claus existed (much in the same way Jesus existed) but the myth overtook the man.

 

So... his existence is as questionable as Jesus's? In fact, the historical Santa Claus's existence (as Saint Nicholas), being more recent, is likely more accurate than the historical Jesus. Relying on the gospels to construct an historical Jesus bases the construct on false assumptions.

 

Does that make Santa more likely to exist than Jesus?

 

(On a side note: What did I do to make me want to debate everything today?!)

[Burakiosaurus 129]

you're damned if you tell them and you're damned if you don't tell them .... i wouldn't know not being a parent myself, so can't really comment. i don't remembe myself when i found out santa wasn't real, so i couldn't have been that old. maybe an age where you know your kids won't have the memory of finding out he isn't real is the right age. but if that doesn't work, i'm sure you can borrow the Haitian from Heroes to erase the memory!

[Nimf 324]

(On a side note: What did I do to make me want to debate everything today?!)

You doubted Santa, gtherefore you are cursed to debate for the rest of your life!

 

The only issue with saying it's not the teachers place is where does it end? Gem, you mentioned aged 13-why 13? Why not 16 when they are considered mature enough to have sex or even 18 when they are adults? It IS hard to say when to stop the lie. Oh and DC-remember the old saying "do as I say, not as I do"? That applies here.:P

[Guest The Beltster]

I think it shows the attitude of people to condemn the Santa myth as parents "lying" to their kids.

 

Sure if you strip it down to the bare bones it can be classed as a lie, but when did people become so miserable that they think of it that way?

 

Its just a myth or a fairytale character that kids have enjoyed living for years. To label it nothing more than parents lying to their kids, makes it sound like its wrong.

 

And lets get real here shall we: kids dont NEED anybody to tell them Santa isnt real. Anybody with a brain will come to that realisation on their own, its not the most believable tale in the world, is it? Come on.

 

I think by the time kids are 8-9 or 10 at the latest, they know for the most part and I'd say the age is probably gradually getting lower.

[DC 536]

I'm of the firm belief that Jesus was a skilled magician/illusionist who used his talent to spread a good message.

 

As for kids. If they're smart, once they've worked out Santa isn't real, they should milk it for a few more years anyway.

 

Besides, we all know the real story of Santa Clause.

Edited December 18, 2007 by DC

[Paul 584]

The one big question is how can we tell kids that it's wrong to lie when we, as adults, have been lieing to them (not just a lie, but a massive worldwide deception) for between 7-11 years?

 

VERY good question.

 

 

I think by the time kids are 8-9 or 10 at the latest, they know for the most part and I'd say the age is probably gradually getting lower.

 

 

Agreed, thats why I dont think the teacher did anything wrong in the first quote.

 

As for kids. If they're smart, once they've worked out Santa isn't real, they should milk it for a few more years anyway.

 

Exactly what I said to Gem earlier. :lol