UFO's Real or Fiction

[DC 536]

What about evolution? A lot of full-blown skeptics rebuke the notion of evolution, despite there being proof on the subject.

[Omega 354]

undeniable proof? No, using occams razor it seems the most likely but there is still no direct proof of evolution it is merely the most likely solution....

[Guest A.C.]

To add to what Omega says there - I'm not saying aliens and god and so on can't exist; I'm not saying it's wrong to hope that they exist; I am saying that believing in them is a nonsensical position.

 

What about evolution? A lot of full-blown skeptics rebuke the notion of evolution, despite there being proof on the subject.

 

Linkage?

 

Also, because someone calls themselves sceptical doesn't necessarily make it so. A lot of 9/11 conspiracy theorists call themselves sceptical - they get the disbelief part of scepticism but only externally. They don't apply that scepticism to their own beliefs.

Edited January 23, 2008 by A.C.

[DC 536]

To add to what Omega says there - I'm not saying aliens and god and so on can't exist; I'm not saying it's wrong to hope that they exist; I am saying that believing in them is a nonsensical position.

Why is that any more nonsensical that skepticism on certain things?

 

You say that the burden is on the believer, not the non-believer, but surely the fact that a skeptic cannot prove something doesn't exist is as valid as a believer not being able to prove that it does.

 

There is a cadré of evidence that has never been discredited. If it cannot be discredited, then it is truth IMO.

[Guest A.C.]

Why is that any more nonsensical than skepticism on certain things?

 

Which things?

 

You say that the burden is on the believer, not the non-believer, but surely the fact that a skeptic cannot prove something doesn't exist is as valid as a believer not being able to prove that it does.

 

The sceptic isn't making a claim so they're not equally valid. Within the realm of the paranormal you can't prove a negative.

 

There is a cadré of evidence that has never been discredited. If it cannot be discredited, then it is truth IMO.

 

Linkage?

[Paul 584]

The sceptic isn't making a claim so they're not equally valid. Within the realm of the paranormal you can't prove a negative.

 

If you say something doesnt exist then are you not making a claim? :?

[Guest A.C.]

If you say something doesnt exist then are you not making a claim? :?

 

Semantics again but worth addressing. I don't claim that aliens don't or can't exist. I will claim (although "claim" feels the wrong word for it) that there is no objective evidence or verification for the existence of aliens and so for people to claim that they do exist is a purely faith-based claim.

[Paul 584]

Bear with me, I am not a great debater, BUT just because you havent seen the evidence it doesnt mean its not there. If, like DC, someone has had an encounter is that not evidence to them? Then in turn if there own proof/stories are used does that not make them evidence of sorts?

 

Not phrased well I know, but you get what I mean I hope.

[Guest A.C.]

Bear with me, I am not a great debater, BUT just because you havent seen the evidence it doesnt mean its not there. If, like DC, someone has had an encounter is that not evidence to them? Then in turn if there own proof/stories are used does that not make them evidence of sorts?

 

Not phrased well I know, but you get what I mean I hope.

 

If someone's encounter consists of lights in the sky... what then leads to them believing it was aliens? In what way is that evidence?

 

[edit] Re: DC's initial post regarding that which "appeared over a period of sequential nights in varying sizes (but always the same shape/light formation)" - my first thought was that it was Venus or another planetary body causing this as it's a well known phenomena and is well documented.

Edited January 23, 2008 by A.C.

[Paul 584]

If someone's encounter consists of lights in the sky... what then leads to them believing it was aliens? In what way is that evidence?

 

What about all the 'abduction' stories? Or are all those people either liars or incorect just on the basis of what you think/belive?

 

 

On a related note, whats your take on the cattle mutilation stuff?

[Guest Al Stevens]

On a related note, whats your take on the cattle mutilation stuff?

 

It's a damn nasty submission hold :greets4:

[Guest A.C.]

What about all the 'abduction' stories? Or are all those people either liars or incorect just on the basis of what you think/belive?

 

 

On a related note, whats your take on the cattle mutilation stuff?

 

Abduction - current consensus would be false memory syndrome combined with cultural influence. [edit to add] Look at abduction stories through the ages and compare them to what at that time was the "modern" fictional representation of the paranormal or "alien". For instance, in the middle ages those who had abduction experiences would generally attribute them to succubi/incubi as they where part of the cultural landscape of the time.

 

Cattle mutilation has been shown to be attributable to the natural death of a cow, followed by swelling due to the gas inside the body that then causes the body to split (aka "surgical incisions" :lol) and then be picked clean by the carrion eaters who prefer rotten meat. Why, when this explanation fits the facts does mutilation have to be an acceptable theory.

Edited January 23, 2008 by A.C.

[Guest Laffy]

However, given what we know about physics and how fast things can travel and so forth, it is highly unlikely any being from across the universe will ever visit Earth. Interstellar travel is extremely difficult, damn near impossible.

 

Now, UFOs do exist. But none of them are spaceships from another planet. Every UFO ever seen by a person on Earth has some terrestrial origin. By definition, a UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object, nothing more.

 

There are a lot of recorded UFO sightings all over the world but most of these sightings happen late at night and in areas with wide open spaces like the country side. Evidence of UFO sightings have even been documented through photos and video cameras. However, such shots can be faked so the evidence still has to undergo the close scrutiny of the experts before they are declared as genuine photos or footage.

.

 

Christ Jesus told us that when the end of the age would come (the generation just before the Second Advent of Christ) there would be "fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven" (Luke 21:11). Some of these signs would be given to God’s people (by God or angelic powers under God’s direction) to warn them of impending events (Luke 21:25), while other signs would be allowed to be demonstrated by Satan and his angels to deceive the world. The apostle Paul spoke of the Man of Sin (whom some called the Antichrist) ‘whose coming is after the working of Satan with evil power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved (from the end-time trouble]. And for this cause GOD SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie (Greek: the LIE, II Thessalonians 2:9-11 capitalization mine).

 

So UFO's could come but i doubt they will contain Aliens.

 

I do have to say i should have quoted where i got the stuff from, the bottom one i think you can guess. I had written my own version of the above and was practically identical but with gramatical errors and the way everyone is at the moment decided to go with Yahoos version.

[Guest A.C.]

I do have to say i should have quoted where i got the stuff from, the bottom one i think you can guess. I had written my own version of the above and was practically identical but with gramatical errors and the way everyone is at the moment decided to go with Yahoos version although who is to say i did not write that under my yahoo account hey?

 

:lol Fair enough. I took it on faith and believed you'd copied it... Bad sceptic, bad sceptic! :xyx

[Guest Laffy]

:lol Fair enough. I took it on faith and believed you'd copied it... Bad sceptic, bad sceptic! :xyx

I just think at the moment if you are crap at grammer and something else says it better go with it but i have to say i should have quoted it and did not so was wrong very wrong in that respect.

[Guest dpddave]

Now ye see, people are even afraid to post for fear of been ridiculed because of their grammar . It's a sad, sad day for TWO.

[Paul 584]

Now ye see, people are even afraid to post for fear of been ridiculed because of their grammar . It's a sad, sad day for TWO.

 

 

My gramma normally does the ridiculing.

 

 

 

 

I will continue the debate another day AC, by brain hurts too much right now.

[Guest A.C.]

To be honest, this grammar scandal has passed me by completely.

[DC 536]

[edit] Re: DC's initial post regarding that which "appeared over a period of sequential nights in varying sizes (but always the same shape/light formation)" - my first thought was that it was Venus or another planetary body causing this as it's a well known phenomena and is well documented.

To give some background to this one, I saw it when I was staying over at my then girlfriend's house. It was a ninth-floor flat and the "phenomenon" was viewed through her bedroom window.

 

We both saw it, so I'm not mental or anything, and it was not "in the sky" in the sense of having to crane my neck skywards to see it. It was in the air, but appeared to be almost on the same level as her window.

 

The lights were arranged as a large central light and six smaller (about a third of the size) lights circling it. They were all white and the six smaller ones pulsed every 2-3 seconds.

 

If we take the first night as the lights being standard size, they were around 40% smaller the next night, about 50% bigger on night three and the standard size on night four.

 

By night five I had acquired my cousin's telescope to actually look at them closer, but it did no good, because looking through the lens didn't actually make things any clearer.

 

This went on for nine nights, and the lights varied in size each night.

 

I don't know what it was, but it was definately within the boundaries of the planet when I was looking at it.

[Guest Reno]

While on my travels across the wonder that is net, looking at Final Fantasy forums, I stumbled across a thread about UFO's and Aliens, and found somthing that caught my eye...

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Adr/d004.jpg

 

Let's take a closer look...

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Adr/d2cd2.jpg

 

These were taken on Mars by Spirit, which is a pretty recent rover mission. I've heard these images were even shown on TV in america.

 

The larger images still include this, too. Which are all found on the Nasa site.

 

http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20080103a.html

 

If you look in those larger images, the "figure" is there. Strange huh? Looks like Jawa's aren't just on tatooine.