Best Final Fantasy Villain

DC · December 6, 2006

Not at all. Diversity is a very good thing. But tell me - how is an uninformed opinion worth anything to anyone?

Question: Do you like Person A or Person B more?
Answer: I like Person A more.
Question: Why?
Answer: Um.....

If a person can have an opinion that is not just crap, I have no problem with it. But if you're gonna say someone is "the best" you need to have reasons for it. If you're gonna say Sammy Sosa is the best baseball player in history, you need to have something to support that. Opionions make the world go around sure - but how much of that opinion can be supported with facts? How much of it is not simply bias? How much of it is worth something?

If you want to say I'm an egotistical ass, go ahead. All I'm saying is that if you think someone is "the best" you should have backing for it. I've given backing for my opinion with facts and that's why i say Kuja is better.

I compared the two. I showed why Kuja was better. So, what did I do wrong? To say Sephirtoh is the best would be contradicting facts.

And I state again. You posted a thread asking the entire forum who THEY think was/is the best FF villain. Now let's say they haven't seen Kuja in action. Why would they say he was better than anyone else? Surely that defeats the purpose of asking the question.

In my opinion, which is a valid one, you only started this thread so you could show "how smart you are" to the masses. But it's now backfired, and you've come across as an arrogant, narrow-minded idiot. Not only that, but one who thinks those who cannot see that you are right, and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong must be uninformed.

A quick lesson for you. Opinion and fact are two different things.

December 7, 2006

What use is an opinion if it has no support to it? It's like having a debate but a person doesn't have a clue what the reason they're debating is. So...you're pro-choice. Why? You need some sort of reasoning to say something is the "best." Favorite is a whole other matter. Favorite means you just like a certain character more than another. Best translates to this character have superiority over another one for some reason or another. If Sephiroth is "better" than the rest of the villains, why? Is he more developed? Stronger? What makes him the "besT"?

Okay then. What of it? People can disagree with your opinion but that doesn't mean that their opinion is worth anything. You have an argument with someone about opinions. One person knows their stuff. The other doesn't. Who has the right to say "I know what I'm talking about"? The person who knows their stuff. I know my stuff. I've written essays on this sort of thing and there's no reason at all for me to say Sephiroth is better just because someone said so just because they said so. I know he isn't better.

Perfect example why I say I have the right to say I am right. This argument is simply false on its face and nothing but a total insult to Kuja. Kuja is a 100x better than Sephiroth and I've proven it on more than one forum. If you want the summary of what I'm about to post, here's their maind ifferences:

1. Sephiroth was wrong about his true identity and following this misconception, he went totally insane and embraced it. Kuja HATED what he was with a passiona nd worked his life to surmount his existence.
2. Sephiroth is more physically dominating than Kuja who is only a mage.
3. Kuja did a heck of a lot more than Sephiroth ever did even though Seph had the backing of a crappy fanservice movie.

And for the full reasoning...

Kuja vs. Sephiroth - the confrontation of the silver-haired Playstation sensation...s. Kuja, the poetic yet nearly unknown antagonist of Final Fantasy IX against Sephiroth, the universally-known and giant sword-wielding villain of Final Fantasy VII. There have been two threads like this in the past on this forum but both lacked a nice thorough evaluation of each character. I will provide this as the start for this topic.

SEPHIROTH

Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.

Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?

Short time later...

Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.

From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.

Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.

So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.

But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...

Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.

That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.

Power- Now, Sephiroth’s power..what is it? He went into the Lifestream and is now at Northern Crater. He’s stuck there, trapped in materia. His power (never even explained) was the ability to control Jenova’s body and the other Sephiroth clones. In this way, Aeris and the workers at Shinra HQ were killed. Sephiroth himself does absolutely nothing throughout the game except stay stuck in the Crater. His main goal and use of power to attain his goal was Meteor. However, Meteor can be used by anyone.

Aerith: Nope, we can't use it right now. You need great spiritual power to use it.

Cloud: You mean lots of Spiritual energy?

Aerith: That's right. One person's power alone won't do it. Somewhere special. Where there's plenty of the Planet's energy... Oh yeah! The Promised Land!

So, even the “great Sephiroth” to use the terminology of the Sephiroth clones and fans (who have a remarkable likeness in the extent of their brainpower) was incapable of wielding such magic. No one could unless they were at a place of immense power that gave them a big power boost. So, there goes Sephiroth’s amazing power right down the drain.

But, I suppose I should examine Advent Children. He then keeps his consciousness from being assimilated into the Lifestream thanks more to the Jenova cells he was born with than anything else and the three Silver-Haired Men are born. In the end, Kadaj gains Jenova’s head and here is Sephiroth again. His goal now - to traverse the stars using the Jenova cells to contaminate and control the Planet. Again, not his power. Jenova’s. He’s piggybacking on it.

Appearance- Now we al know we are shallow and how a character looks can sway our opinion. Sephiroth is very stereotypical for a villain. Dressed all in black, rather tall and armed with a massive blade, he represents what most villains should look like and what you expect them to look like.

Accomplishments-
Burned down and kill some people in Nibelheim
Used Jenova’s body to kill people in Shinra HQ.
Killed Aeris
Summoned Meteor - failed to achieve goal of this accomplishment
Held off Holy
Came back after being defeated and was defeated again.

KUJA

Motives- Kuja was born a Genome, a specially-designed creature named for a seed used to create them. He was defective, however, and was planned to be disposed of after he had served his purpose of being a placeholder Angel of Death.

Garland: His ambition was unbecoming of a Genome, but it was perfect for the mission I gave him. To bring war and chaos to Gaia...

And so, Kuja’s desires and lust born from his own ideas and egoism were not in accordance with the mission Genomes should hold dear. However, this destructive nature was perfect for Garland.

That was Kuja’s initial motivations, showing he was a natural-born tool of destruction but had ideas of using that destructive might for his own ends. His plan to achieve the power he longed for was thus.

Kuja: You two just don't get it! I need an eidolon more powerful than Alexander! An eidolon with the power to bury Garland! His powers are so incredible; I cannot even come close. I must destroy him before Terra's plan is activated, or my soul will no longer be my own! Who cares if she lives? I want that eidolon!

His goal was to gain the most powerful summon, a summon which could destroy Garland which would both destroy his most powerful and hated nemesis as well as removing the chance his soul would be taken from him. He first used the benevolent Queen of Alexandria, Queen Brahne, to summon Bahamut. Taking control fo Bahamut, he destroyed Queen Brahne and her entire fleet. He then attacked Alexandria with the out-of-control Bahamut but it was destroyed by THE most powerful eidolon, Alexander. When Kuja attempted to seize Alexander however, he was thwarted by Garland. When the new attempt at taking an eidolon from Eiko failed, he concocted a new scheme after witnessing her moogle going into Trance.

Kuja: So...an eruption of anger against one's surroundings induces a complete Trance! It's not the will to live, nor is it the desire to protect another!

Kuja: That means...I simply need a powerful soul, even if that soul is not my own! No, wait... And it can be found there!

Time goes by and the party reaches Terra. Kuja expresses very well how stupid they all are.

Kuja: I must say... I truly love you all. You not only broke the seal to Terra, but did me the favor of defeating Garland!

He then fights the party and they help him even more! They help him go into Trance.

Kuja: It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops. Even tiny
moogles possess the power of Trance... When I saw that in Gulug Volcano, I came up with a plan. It was easy. I just needed to borrow the power
from wretched souls that can't die... Where did I acquire it? It was the Invincible, or should I say, that large eyeball in the sky?

So, his plan shifted a good portion through the game and his own brilliance and cunning led to this new plan being a complete success. Well, almost...

Kuja: A mortal...? ...I'm finished? I don't believe you! Why would I believe such a silly story! You're telling me that I'll die soon, now that I'm more powerful than anyone? I'm gonna...die!? Lose my soul...?

Kuja: ...I won't let it happen. I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!

Kuja, who had lived for power, finally had the unrivaled might he sought. However, his life was at an end. He summed it up pretty bluntly later on in the Crystal World

Kuja: Why should the world exist without me? That wouldn't be fair. If I die, we all die!

To an egocentric narcissist, the world should end if they die. If their time has come, then all others have absolutely no right to live.

He then engages in a battle with the party. You could say he was beaten but he then unleashed Ultima which, depending on your own speculation, may have killed the entire party.It’s not known how they got before Necron in such a place resembling a spiritual door or afterlife as well as members of the party having to give their power to the others so they may battle.

Power- Kuja’s power is truly immense. A mage of immense proportions, he was able to create the entire Black Mage race and the Mistodons to be used against his opponents. His power was so great, he let himself be openly targeted and hit by a straight blast from Bahamut and merely laughed at it. He then survived a blast from the Invincible, the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX, and survived. His main noticeable power is his incredible intellect which allowed him to manipulate a continental war that cost thousands of deaths by using a kind queen. Not mind control but actual manipulation which is a bit more difficult as you must use your brain to make the person act in accordance with your objective. This power also allowed him also to conceive of the plan of using the Invincible to achieve his full power. He thus became a demi-god, a being nearly more powerful than any other in an RPG short of Id and Lavos.

Appearance- Kuja’s appearance is said to be “feminine.” Not only is his face not feminine in the least but nice hips and a thong makes him a great villain. Why, you may ask. Well, do you see the guy in the thong with make-up as the ultimate villain who brings about mass death and chaos? No? Well then, that works perfectly. Besides, a lot of guys wear thongs. It’s nothing that special. Any number of characters may wear thongs under their pants but you can’t see it. Kuja is in love with his own idea of his superiority which would translate into his gladly displaying his body. A narcissist is in love with his appearance.

Accomplishments-
Used Queen Brahne to devastate Burmecia, killing dozens there. Used Brahne to destroy Cleyra, killing everyone there. Used Brahne to attack Lindblum and kill many there.
Created the Black Mages, a race born for warfare and death.
Anticipated and used Queen Brahne one final time to summon Bahamut. Then corrupted Bahamut and destroyed Brahne and her fleet.
Formulated quickly and then put into action his Trance Plan which gave him more power than any other being on the planet.
Created the Chaos Guardians, Memoria and Deathguise.

conclusion

Kuja beats Sephiroth in motivation, appearance, power and accomplishments.

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I don't think of myself as superior. I think of myself as informed and intelligent. And I see no reason to say why other people are right when they haven't really given any credibility to their arguments.

I

You know, if you knew so much about Final Fantasy you'd think you could spell Aeris' name right.

DC · December 7, 2006

Okay then. What of it? People can disagree with your opinion but that doesn't mean that their opinion is worth anything.

Yes it does. In something like this, their opinion is the only thing that matters. What if they've only played FFVII, then how would they know of the other villains? If you say they can have no say, then you are being an elitist snob.

You have an argument with someone about opinions. One person knows their stuff. The other doesn't. Who has the right to say "I know what I'm talking about"?

Both. The less-informed guy/girl is talking about what they have experienced and based their opinion on that. You cannot ask an open question on a forum and then go mental when people don't follow your narrow-minded viewpoint.

Perfect example why I say I have the right to say I am right.

You are not right. In this situation there is no right, and there is no wrong. People think what they want to think. To them that is who they have chosen based on their opinion of what they have seen and experienced.

Kuja vs. Sephiroth - the confrontation of the silver-haired Playstation sensation...s. Kuja, the poetic yet nearly unknown antagonist of Final Fantasy IX against Sephiroth, the universally-known and giant sword-wielding villain of Final Fantasy VII.

Ahhhh, notoriety, the great selling point of a great villain. What's the point of being bad when no-one knows about it? Sephiroth is "universally" known, while Kuja is not. I think that is one in favour of the FFVII antagonist.

So, even the “great Sephiroth” to use the terminology of the Sephiroth clones and fans (who have a remarkable likeness in the extent of their brainpower)

That right there is why you cannot have your opinion taken seriously. You have basically said that those who like Sephiroth are idiots who should listen to the "wise" in the world (that would be you) who know better. Give me a break Bub. You have an opinion, an informed one, but an opinion nonetheless. But you cannot talk down to people because they like someone that you seem to have a problem with.

Appearance- Now we al know we are shallow and how a character looks can sway our opinion. Sephiroth is very stereotypical for a villain. Dressed all in black, rather tall and armed with a massive blade, he represents what most villains should look like and what you expect them to look like.

How dare you even think that we are all shallow. You don't know us, you have no opinion, informed or otherwise, to base that on. You are simple generalising to make your opinion more valid. And besides, even if we are shallow, why would that detract from the opinions we have read? As for most villains looking like that, there aren't many I can recall with a giant blade. As for the all in black look. Pennywise, Keyser Sozé, The Joker and countless others say hi.

Appearance- Kuja’s appearance is said to be “feminine.” Not only is his face not feminine in the least but nice hips and a thong makes him a great villain. Why, you may ask. Well, do you see the guy in the thong with make-up as the ultimate villain who brings about mass death and chaos? No? Well then, that works perfectly. Besides, a lot of guys wear thongs. It’s nothing that special. Any number of characters may wear thongs under their pants but you can’t see it.

Naked Mideon called, he wants you as his PR guy. Since when did a thong make a great villain? And are you telling me that you look at games protagonists/antagonists and wonder if they are wearing a thong? And if they are, that suddenly makes it better. I think you're right. The Nemesis from Resident Evil 3 is scarier already.

I don't think of myself as superior. I think of myself as informed and intelligent. And I see no reason to say why other people are right when they haven't really given any credibility to their arguments.

It's an opinion of a videogame series, right and wrong don't come into it.

As I said in a previous post, you only started this thread, in my opinion, to show off about something that you feel you have a superior knowledge of, and yet you can't take it when someone has a differing viewpoint on it. That is quite sad in itself.