I've gone atheist - how about you?

[Guest Nemesis Enforcer]

I am a member of the First Reformed Chruch of Spongebob Squarepants and that suits me just fine, since I was 11 years old I was, like A.C, an Athiest but then 2 years ago I found this church and embraced it

 

Now I live my life by its teachings (which can be found by clicking the link at the begining of my post) and my life has improved

[Spiritchaser 107]

Scientifically, we don't die, we are made of energy and energy cannot be destroyed it merely transforms into something else.

Scientists will back that up.

We inhabit space suits, which "co-incidently" are designed for the purpose of living here on Earth, now I do not beleive in coincidence due to things logically not working like that in nature.

Not Scientology, but not far away either. God is the thing we look to for hope, when in fact hope will do, we have the power and the capacity not just to hope, but to put in motion the systems which create peace and harmony for all life forms.

We do not all want different things Dra, we just want them at different times in our lives, at the end of it all, we just want to be happy, fed and warm, these are the basic things all of us require, the external forces such as advertising etc... make us require more and more things, which some can and some cannot afford, which makes happy or not happy people.

It is more about personal responsibilty than personal gain, there are more sick people today because there is more for them to crave, and more to gain from evil actions.

In the end, we are born alone and "die"* alone, but what we do in the middle makes a difference to those who love and care for us, we not one of us can go through life not giving or receiving love.

Religion is for those with a lot of love but no where to direct it, so they try to do their best, with what they've got, it's just not for me.

I am merely a soul with a body, not a body with a soul, when the body expires, it doesn't mean I have nothing left to learn.

[Guest Jimmy Redman]

Incidentally, I've just bought a book to read about Buddhism, just because it seems interesting to me to try and understand how it works. Religions in general interest me personally just from my interest in history and that kind of thing, I guess.

[Guest Twig]

I'm all over the place. I believe in whatever speaks naturally to my own self, regardless of the source it comes from.

[Dead Crow 370]

We do not all want different things Dra, we just want them at different times in our lives, at the end of it all, we just want to be happy, fed and warm, these are the basic things all of us require, the external forces such as advertising etc... make us require more and more things, which some can and some cannot afford, which makes happy or not happy people.

I didn't say (or if I did, I didn't mean) we want different things. I said everything in the world is the same - we just see it all differently. What makes one man happy makes another man reach for his gun and pull the trigger. Hence a better understanding of religion. The outer power beyond our reaches is the same power. Some may call it God and attach all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful attributes to it, dedicating their time to prayer and worship in order to please it. Others may call it Mother Nature and simply progress in their daily lives without second thought of what is watching over them, if anything at all.

 

We want the same things - we just attach our own individual merits and ideologies to them, which aren't the same things door to door.

[Guest Inno]

I don't believe in any one God or religion. I do believe in an underlying force, karma if you will - I treat others as I'd like to be treated myself, I don't do anything that goes against my morals or values, and trust the rest of the world to treat me the same.

 

Oh, and I am the head of the Church of Dreamer, and an ordained minister.

 

:)

[Guest Laffy]

Gathered from various web sites.

I am a Catholic until recently practicing catholic but so much rubbish has happened in the lst few years that i do not see the point in going to church. I believe in God, I believe in the core faiths which are:

 

Authority: The Bible, Tradition, Etc

Catholics have various sources of authority: The Bible, Tradition, the Creeds, the Bishops, and the Pope, among others. Ultimately, Christ is our authority, but this authority has been passed from Christ to His Apostles. The Bible and Tradition come from the same Apostolic Deposit, and we do not pit them against each other. Thus the Church understands that the Bible must be interpreted, and the Church does so using the Tradition of the Apostles. The Catholic Church has retained this Apostolic authority through Apostolic Succession, which is the passing down of authority from the apostles to their successors. The pope, or bishop of Rome, has a first place among the successors to the apostles as the successor to Peter, the "Rock," and prince of the apostles, and in certain rare occasions can speak infallibly on behalf of the Church.

 

The Church: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic

The Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus Christ established. Thus the Church subsists in the Catholic Church. However, other Christians are also in communion with the Catholic Church by virtue of their sacraments. The Church is Holy on account of the grace of Christ given to it and the holy sacraments it provides. The Church is Catholic because it contains the fullness of the Apostolic Deposit of Faith, thus is it truly "according to the whole" and "universal." Finally, the Church is Apostolic because its Teachings and Authority come from the Apostles themselves.

 

Creation

Catholics believe that creation is good, that God uses it for His purposes, but that it is marred by Original Sin, the result of the sin of the first human beings. Catholic theologians have never agreed on one particular interpretation of the creation stories in the Book of Genesis. A few early Christians read them literally, others allegorically, and others in light of the science of the day. Some read them all three ways at the same time. All three ways were seen as acceptable, so long as Christ was at the center of creation.

 

God: The Trinity

Catholics follow the Nicene Creed, which affirms that we believe in one God in three persons. Essentially Catholics believe the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all God, one in substance and will, but distinct in some way, but not divided.

 

Jesus Christ: God and Man

Catholics believe Jesus is fully God and fully Man, with a human will and a divine will. He is the King of Cosmos, the Word of God, and the awaited Messiah of Israel. He was born of a Virgin, Mary, suffered, was crucified, truly died, and rose again bodily, all for our sins. He ascended into heaven and is still alive interceding on our behalf before the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. Jesus was a great Teacher, and His Teachings are the very Teachings of God.

 

The Sacraments

The sacraments are divinely instituted signs that give the grace that they signify. Catholics accept seven sacraments: Baptism, Holy Eucharist, Reconciliation, Confirmation, Holy Orders, Matrimony, and Anointing of the Sick.

 

Salvation and Grace

Catholics believe we are saved only by God's grace working in us. Thus we are justified, transformed from the state of unrighteousness into a state of holiness and the sonship of God, on account of Christ. Justification is the merciful and freely given act of God which takes away our sins and makes us just and holy in our whole being. This justification is given to us in the sacrament of baptism.

 

The Virgin Mary

Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man, thus she is called theotokos (God-Bearer) and "mother of God." Catholics, like Protestants, believe that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. However, Catholics believe that Mary remained a Virgin her entire life. Catholics believe that Mary was conceived without original sin in order to be a sinless bearer of God incarnate: Jesus Christ. This is known as the immaculate conception. This sinlessness was accomplished only on account of God's grace, and not on Mary's merits. Catholics believe that after Mary completed the course of her earthly life, she was assumed into heaven, similar to the way the great saint Elijah was.

 

But i am angry with God which is why i no longer go to church. I am angry that my three best friends were killed, angry that my mum died, angry that in 7 years at uni 12 of my friends have died via crashes, suicide, illness. Angry that my life is rubbish, angry at a lot of things does not stop me believing but i feel a hypocrite going to chuch while wishing bad thoughts against god. i have been to confession each time i feel this way and have been forgiven and my sins wiped clean but still can not get rid of the anger.

Edited December 13, 2007 by Laffy

[Omega 354]

Isn't "i am, therefore I think" just a fairly trite aphorism A.C given that it logicaly doesn't follow Descartes priniclples of truth? Your corporeal existence is not proof of thought therefore you do not exist.

 

What about "I am therefore my thoughts are my own" or put better "Sum Ergo Sensa Mei Possidere".

[Guest A.C.]

Gathered from various web sites.

I am a Catholic until recently practicing catholic but so much rubbish has happened in the lst few years that i do not see the point in going to church. I believe in God, I believe in the core faiths which are:

 

Authority: The Bible, Tradition, Etc

Catholics have various sources of authority: The Bible, Tradition, the Creeds, the Bishops, and the Pope, among others. Ultimately, Christ is our authority, but this authority has been passed from Christ to His Apostles. The Bible and Tradition come from the same Apostolic Deposit, and we do not pit them against each other. Thus the Church understands that the Bible must be interpreted, and the Church does so using the Tradition of the Apostles. The Catholic Church has retained this Apostolic authority through Apostolic Succession, which is the passing down of authority from the apostles to their successors. The pope, or bishop of Rome, has a first place among the successors to the apostles as the successor to Peter, the "Rock," and prince of the apostles, and in certain rare occasions can speak infallibly on behalf of the Church.

 

The Church: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic

The Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus Christ established. Thus the Church subsists in the Catholic Church. However, other Christians are also in communion with the Catholic Church by virtue of their sacraments. The Church is Holy on account of the grace of Christ given to it and the holy sacraments it provides. The Church is Catholic because it contains the fullness of the Apostolic Deposit of Faith, thus is it truly "according to the whole" and "universal." Finally, the Church is Apostolic because its Teachings and Authority come from the Apostles themselves.

 

Creation

Catholics believe that creation is good, that God uses it for His purposes, but that it is marred by Original Sin, the result of the sin of the first human beings. Catholic theologians have never agreed on one particular interpretation of the creation stories in the Book of Genesis. A few early Christians read them literally, others allegorically, and others in light of the science of the day. Some read them all three ways at the same time. All three ways were seen as acceptable, so long as Christ was at the center of creation.

 

God: The Trinity

Catholics follow the Nicene Creed, which affirms that we believe in one God in three persons. Essentially Catholics believe the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all God, one in substance and will, but distinct in some way, but not divided.

 

Jesus Christ: God and Man

Catholics believe Jesus is fully God and fully Man, with a human will and a divine will. He is the King of Cosmos, the Word of God, and the awaited Messiah of Israel. He was born of a Virgin, Mary, suffered, was crucified, truly died, and rose again bodily, all for our sins. He ascended into heaven and is still alive interceding on our behalf before the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. Jesus was a great Teacher, and His Teachings are the very Teachings of God.

 

The Sacraments

The sacraments are divinely instituted signs that give the grace that they signify. Catholics accept seven sacraments: Baptism, Holy Eucharist, Reconciliation, Confirmation, Holy Orders, Matrimony, and Anointing of the Sick.

 

Salvation and Grace

Catholics believe we are saved only by God's grace working in us. Thus we are justified, transformed from the state of unrighteousness into a state of holiness and the sonship of God, on account of Christ. Justification is the merciful and freely given act of God which takes away our sins and makes us just and holy in our whole being. This justification is given to us in the sacrament of baptism.

 

The Virgin Mary

Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man, thus she is called theotokos (God-Bearer) and "mother of God." Catholics, like Protestants, believe that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. However, Catholics believe that Mary remained a Virgin her entire life. Catholics believe that Mary was conceived without original sin in order to be a sinless bearer of God incarnate: Jesus Christ. This is known as the immaculate conception. This sinlessness was accomplished only on account of God's grace, and not on Mary's merits. Catholics believe that after Mary completed the course of her earthly life, she was assumed into heaven, similar to the way the great saint Elijah was.

 

But i am angry with God which is why i no longer go to church. I am angry that my three best friends were killed, angry that my mum died, angry that in 7 years at uni 12 of my friends have died via crashes, suicide, illness. Angry that my life is rubbish, angry at a lot of things does not stop me believing but i feel a hypocrite going to chuch while wishing bad thoughts against god. i have been to confession each time i feel this way and have been forgiven and my sins wiped clean but still can not get rid of the anger.

 

Catholicism's a pretty evil faith. Just look at Mother Theresa - horrible little crone that was more interested in leeching on third world ignorance by "saving" souls and converting the dying than healing. The church will be canonizing her at some point in the future (there has already been at least one preposterous "miracle" caused by her since her death). How about moving child-abusing priests to quieter parishes in order that they can continue their pederasty and have the affair hushed-up? How about telling children that their unbaptized friends and relatives will burn in hell for eternity? How about missionaries in Africa who won't discuss condoms with a people in the midst of an HIV epidemic? How about the pain brought about by being a devout Catholic who discovers he/she is homosexual?

 

This is the community that can wipe away your sins? What about their own?

 

Isn't "i am, therefore I think" just a fairly trite aphorism A.C given that it logicaly doesn't follow Descartes priniclples of truth? Your corporeal existence is not proof of thought therefore you do not exist.

 

What about "I am therefore my thoughts are my own" or put better "Sum Ergo Sensa Mei Possidere".

 

I'm not much of philosopher so Descartes talk will tend to go over my head. "I am, therefore I think," is referring more to the idea that because I exist I should use my brain.

Edited December 13, 2007 by A.C.

[Omega 354]

Yes, I know just trying to stimulate some existensial debate on the nature of existence and truth.

 

Descartes in brief is that the only thing that can be held to be true and real is your own existance proved by the fact that you are experiencing existence by thinking. So even if the whole universe ws a cunning trick by some malevolent demon and everything that you saw around you was a lie or not real you would still know that you existed because you are thinking and experiencing it. Thus you think therefore you must be.

 

Thats why Descartes doesn't rubbish the idea of God or any higher power but he also doesn't say that "God" is proveable, the only proveable thing is your own existence to yourself.

 

Thats why I had that big debate about the "truth" of science because it is proveable within it's own rules, believe in the rules and science is totally proveable, believe in a God and religion is totally proveable. It's an individuals choice to believe the "evidence" presented by each side but in the end the only "true" thing is that the person considering the arguements exists to consider them.

[Guest A.C.]

Yes, I know just trying to stimulate some existensial debate on the nature of existence and truth.

 

Descartes in brief is that the only thing that can be held to be true and real is your own existance proved by the fact that you are experiencing existence by thinking. So even if the whole universe ws a cunning trick by some malevolent demon and everything that you saw around you was a lie or not real you would still know that you existed because you are thinking and experiencing it. Thus you think therefore you must be.

 

Thats why Descartes doesn't rubbish the idea of God or any higher power but he also doesn't say that "God" is proveable, the only proveable thing is your own existence to yourself.

 

Thats why I had that big debate about the "truth" of science because it is proveable within it's own rules, believe in the rules and science is totally proveable, believe in a God and religion is totally proveable. It's an individuals choice to believe the "evidence" presented by each side but in the end the only "true" thing is that the person considering the arguements exists to consider them.

 

Thanks for the precis. :xyx

 

So unless humans can agree on a physical reality and how they measure that reality they'll never agree on matters of the soul...? (Can you tell I'm uncharted waters here? :lol)

[Omega 354]

Thanks for the precis. :xyx

 

So unless humans can agree on a physical reality and how they measure that reality they'll never agree on matters of the soul...? (Can you tell I'm uncharted waters here? :lol)

 

I think the general premis is that you can't disprove anything metaphysical and anything that proves anything physical is subject to the metaphysical/ethereal conundrum that it has been placed there by a higher power to confuse us all (nasty higher power).

 

So basically no, nothing can be agreed upon other than that each indivdual proves their own existance only to themselves (the old I could be dreaming all of you type scenario).

 

So mI know I exist because I think, I cannot determine that you think therefore you might not exist. I hope you do though, this is all quite fun! :D

[Omega 354]

It's also worth remembering that Decartes was a follower of the Rationlistic method, meaning he believed that knowledge is gained soley by the thought process rather than an emprical idea where by general experience dictates what we learn. This meant that Descartes believed there to be things that exist outside the realms of human experience, things that only the mind could rationlise (such as God or similar). If you bleieve that only science holds the key to truth then you have a more emprical sense of belief in which only the observable phenomena can be proven or true.

[Spiritchaser 107]

I didn't say (or if I did, I didn't mean) we want different things. I said everything in the world is the same - we just see it all differently. What makes one man happy makes another man reach for his gun and pull the trigger. Hence a better understanding of religion. The outer power beyond our reaches is the same power. Some may call it God and attach all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful attributes to it, dedicating their time to prayer and worship in order to please it. Others may call it Mother Nature and simply progress in their daily lives without second thought of what is watching over them, if anything at all.

 

We want the same things - we just attach our own individual merits and ideologies to them, which aren't the same things door to door.

 

Accepted, people aren't affected by things then, just their view of things.:xyx

[Guest Anime Otaku]

Catholicism's a pretty evil faith. Just look at Mother Theresa - horrible little crone that was more interested in leeching on third world ignorance by "saving" souls and converting the dying than healing. The church will be canonizing her at some point in the future (there has already been at least one preposterous "miracle" caused by her since her death). How about moving child-abusing priests to quieter parishes in order that they can continue their pederasty and have the affair hushed-up? How about telling children that their unbaptized friends and relatives will burn in hell for eternity? How about missionaries in Africa who won't discuss condoms with a people in the midst of an HIV epidemic? How about the pain brought about by being a devout Catholic who discovers he/she is homosexual?

 

This is the community that can wipe away your sins? What about their own?

 

You forgot that the church changed the rules to make it easier to beautify Mother Theresa (the first step to sainthood) though I wouldn't say that the church is evil, just certain people in it, unfortunatly they tend to be those in positions of power, including various Popes through the ages. It could defineatly do with modernisation though re: contraception, allowing female Clergy, allowing Clergy to marry and homosexuals.

[Spiritchaser 107]

You forgot that the church changed the rules to make it easier to beautify Mother Theresa (the first step to sainthood) though I wouldn't say that the church is evil, just certain people in it, unfortunatly they tend to be those in positions of power, including various Popes through the ages. It could defineatly do with modernisation though re: contraception, allowing female Clergy, allowing Clergy to marry and homosexuals.

 

That would be Protestantism then :lol:xyx