Films Biggest Anti Hero

[Guest Anime Otaku]

What about Jay and Silent Bob in some of the View Askew movies? Mainly thinking of Dogma and maybe Mallrats.

If we're going outside movies now I'd say the lead characters from Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt are good examples of the modern type of anti-heroes, anime's pretty much full of the original "loser protagonist" characters too. Pretty much every male lead in a harem comedy for a start.

[Evil Gringo 279]

Jay and Silent Bob are the Anti-Heroes in every film they are in, because they are drug dealing perverts - funny ones but still pretty messed up guys.

 

Closing battle in Jay and Silent Bob: Strike Back between Jay and Mark Hamill is priceless, I tell you no one rips themselves more then Hamill and it is a joy to watch.

[The Icon 152]

Jay and Silent Bob are the Anti-Heroes in every film they are in, because they are drug dealing perverts - funny ones but still pretty messed up guys.

 

Closing battle in Jay and Silent Bob: Strike Back between Jay and Mark Hamill is priceless, I tell you no one rips themselves more then Hamill and it is a joy to watch.

 

Oh yeah! Had forgot about them. They do fit the bill.

[Paul 584]

The film is good but the book is great, his character is far more (as you would expect) draw out and his motivations are better

 

I assume you mean Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? Its a good book for sure, though not as dark its far more cynical.

[DC 536]

DC made a mistake let's all ridicule him for the next...

I'm annoyed you didn't get the joke I made.

and a special mention to Eric Draven, Lester Burnham and The Dude.

Eric Draven is many things, but he's not a villain. Same can be said for The Dude.

[The Icon 152]

I'm annoyed you didn't get the joke I made.Eric Draven is many things, but he's not a villain. Same can be said for The Dude.

 

I disagree Draven is a Villian, but only slightly. The Dude was called an antihero in an Empire film interview by the cohens.

[Guest Phil]

Eric Draven is many things, but he's not a villain. Same can be said for The Dude.

 

we're talking about anti-heros though, not villains. I would say Draven is an anti-hero of sorts. Same as the Punisher, they're both killing bad guys, but they're still killing.

[The Icon 152]

we're talking about anti-heros though, not villains. I would say Draven is an anti-hero of sorts. Same as the Punisher, they're both killing bad guys, but they're still killing.

 

All antiheroes are villians. The meaning of the word is part villian and part hero.

[Omega 354]

All antiheroes are villians. The meaning of the word is part villian and part hero.

 

No, it isn't. Did my dissertation on Anti-heroes and that is the biggest bull-hooey statement I've ever read. An anti-hero can be an antagonist but the term applies in 90% of cases to a protagonist outside the archetype of a hero.

 

You want the best example of a modern Anti-hero: Michael Douglas in Falling Down.

 

I'd argue strongly that Ed Norton is NOT an anti-hero as he's technically both the antagonist and protagonist in the film. Either that or both Norton and Pitt are anti-heroes reversing roles through the film.

[JobberJoe 108]

Did my dissertation on Anti-heroes

 

Before you reply Icon, I'd seriously read that bit right there and probably concede Megs knows what he's talking about better than you do :P.

[The Icon 152]

You can claim anything you want Omega. As somebody who writes books featuring antiheroes I know what I am talking about.

 

 

**Book now in post to Omega**

[Omega 354]

I don't claim sh*t, anti-heroes, oddly enough given their name, are heroes in the main but are in some way flawed. You contrast the Knight in shining armour against The Knight in rusty armour, both heroes one is flawed and goes against the archetype of a hero. Anti is this case DOES NOT MEAN polar opposite ie a villain however it can mean an antagonist WHICH IS NOT THE SAME THING.

 

Just so we can all appreciate that you truly mean what you say please once again affirm that you believe that ALL anti-heroes are villains.

[The Icon 152]

I don't claim sh*t, anti-heroes, oddly enough given their name, are heroes in the main but are in some way flawed. You contrast the Knight in shining armour against The Knight in rusty armour, both heroes one is flawed and goes against the archetype of a hero. Anti is this case DOES NOT MEAN polar opposite ie a villain however it can mean an antagonist WHICH IS NOT THE SAME THING.

 

Just so we can all appreciate that you truly mean what you say please once again affirm that you believe that ALL anti-heroes are villains.

 

No I said that they are Heroes and Villians. That is my point that all antiheroes are both hero and Villian.

[Paul 584]

Not true though. As Omega said an antihero is a flawed hero who carries a trait normally associated with a villain (such as, for example, a lack of pity, a nasty streak or simple cowardace).

 

edit: Omega, any chance you have a copy of that dissertation? I'd be interested in reading it.

[Omega 354]

Since that isn't what you actually said I'll requote:

 

All antiheroes are villians. The meaning of the word is part villian and part hero.

 

That statement is inherently flawed both from a literal definition of what an Anti-hero is and also the actual part an Anti-hero plays within the confines of fiction. An Anti-hero by definition is a character who unlike the heroes of greek myth has a flaw(s) which turns the audience away from the character.

 

A Villain on the other hand is soley and utterly an agent of evil designed to commit evil acts. A villain is never an anti-hero.

 

An Antagonist works in opposition to the protagonist however that doesn't in itself make them a villain. If Superman and Batman were trying to catch the same villain for different reasons and we viewed it from only one of their perspectives then either hero would be the other antagonist with the criminal (lets say The Joker here) being a villain.

 

An antagonist can be an anti-hero. In Falling Down the ageing cop is in reality the classic hero and protagonist and Michael Douglas is his antagonist, Douglas isn't himself a villain because he doesn't commit evil acts for the sake of being evil but he's also portrayed as a danger to his family and therefore despite the audience liking some of his actions ultimately he can never be a true hero.

 

Understand that Heroes, Protagonists, Villains, Antagonists and Anti-heroes are terms that can be applied exclusively. There is no all. There is no "must be hero and villain". You are in fact totally incorrect.

[Omega 354]

Not true though. As Omega said an antihero is a flawed hero who carries a trait normally associated with a villain (such as, for example, a lack of pity, a nasty streak or simple cowardace).

 

edit: Omega, any chance you have a copy of that dissertation? I'd be interested in reading it.

 

You know what I don't think I do anymore. :( Was on my old PC which had its HHD die. I'll have a check on my old pen drives and see if it;s hanging about anywhere.

[Paul 584]

I'd say that the traditional Greek 'hero' is far closer to what we now see as an anti hero as they are, almost without exception, flawed. Matricide, infanticide, theft, murder, rape and kidnapp are all features of many (most) of them.

[Omega 354]

Lol, that's probably true although most of those situations form part of a tragedy which has a slightly different set of literary conventions in that the protagonist is often the means of his own downfall which means he could be both his of antagonist and also a villain. :)

[Paul 584]

For sure, the Greeks loved their tragic heroes.

 

Talking of the Greeks, in the Illiad I can only find one person who stands out as an actual hero, and thats the Trojan prince Hector. I may be the only person who was ever surprised by that. :lol

[Guest John Hancock]

I think that's pretty common in all ancient mythology. Being a bit of a d*ck was seen as a positive trait. Nordic, Persian and Egyptian mythology is also full of enormous bell-ends being presented as the guy you're supposed to sympathise with, whilst the only genuinely likeable, honourable people are always on the wrong side, and die because they were blinded by honour or duty into doing something stupid.