Most Underated & Overrated Musicians

March 10, 2009

Your confusing opinion with fact though arent you? I'm not defending music, I'm just saying it clearly has a place and an audience. It's a fact, you can blow as much smoke as you like about how you think it's crap, but it's still a fact that people like it, for what it is...music.

I mean for Goodness sake go back and read what I said before sounding like an ignorant prat who thinks they know it all but in fact knows absolutely nothing.

Christ Jung, I'm starting to feel a bit bad about arguing with you. It's a bit like laughing at a retard. I do read what you say, it just seems naive at best and wildly uninformed at worst.

I don't know where you're getting this idea from that I present all my opinions as fact - a quick scan over the last few pages throws up the following tidbits :

I find the most immediately catchy songs...

I think that's a fallacy.

...I think 'proper' music fans appreciate that.

I think you're more in love with the idea of being a rock star...

I was arguing a song's longevity...

My problem with manufactured pop is...

I just don't think they have more talent...

...which I think a lot of pop music does

...hence why I don't think Las Ketchup...

...I just think it's a lot less ubiquitous...

...I don't think their opinion is as valid...

What, do you want me to write a disclaimer after everything I say? Have a go at me for being a snob, sure, but don't try discredit my argument by making dumb assumptions.

Who gives a crap if I do like basshunter? I actually can't stand it, but I'm not defending people for liking it, because ultimately whether they do or don't, what the f*ck does it matter? Why are so concerned about it? Why are you throwing your toys out the pram and insulting people if they like basshunter?

Because for that reason they have every right to say your a tone deaf t*sspot liking Elbow. And you know why? BECAUSE IT'S AN OPINION!

I'm throwing my toys out of the pram? Am I getting so clearly wound up I'm swearing at you and writing in caps? All I'm hearing is "Someone else has a strong opinion about music on this board? I'm supposed to be the musician here! Wah! Wah!"

Yes I think Shaolin's opinion is as valid as mine, because he's entitled to like and dislike whatever he wants. If he said to me that The Beatles were the crappest band ever, who cares? He's allowed to say that, doesn't mean I like them any less does it? Or it doesn't make them any less brilliant in my opinion.

[...]

There isn't such thing as a finer taste in anything. Finer by who's definition? It can't be defined because it isn't a fact. Just because somebody knows more about something doesn't mean they are right when it boils down to whether you like something or not.

Don't you think he has a less informed opinion? I'm not saying his view on the world in general is any less right or wrong than yours, but he clearly doesn't appreciate as much music. I enjoy watching wrestling but I can fully accept I don't know shit about it compared to those on this board who really live and breathe it. Why should music be any different? If you don't like formulaic pop, grow some balls, take a stand and say it. You don't have to pander to people who don't like you to be a success - look at John Lydon, Morrissey and Ryan Adams. As far as I can tell, it's me who's being 'talked down to' for not holding the popular opinion.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Jaycey Baby

March 10, 2009

Ah I see it's got to this stage now where you have utterly nothing to say except throw petty insults, shame it was just becoming interesting.

We'll agree to disagree, Im tired of going over the same thing repeatedly.

All I'm hearing is "Someone else has a strong opinion about music on this board? I'm supposed to be the musician here! Wah! Wah!"

Yeah exactly right, except I don't really have a strong opinion on something at all. I just don't appreciate you saying dumb things like

if you think Basshunter's good, you're a cloth-eared prize moron

Its just not necessary is it?

Oh and has your argument changed now?

Originally you said Shaolin's opinion isn't as valid as mine, cause he hasn't listen to the same amount of music

Don't you think he has a less informed opinion? I'm not saying his view on the world in general is any less right or wrong than yours, but he clearly doesn't appreciate as much music. I enjoy watching wrestling but I can fully accept I don't know shit about it compared to those on this board who really live and breathe it. Why should music be any different?

Maybe he does have a less informed opinion, but does that make it less valid? Of course it doesn't. Whether he appreciates as much music doesn't make what he says any less credible. I mean how can anyone have a less valid opinion when its ultimately based on tastes?

If you don't like formulaic pop, grow some balls, take a stand and say it. You don't have to pander to people who don't like you to be a success - look at John Lydon, Morrissey and Ryan Adams. As far as I can tell, it's me who's being 'talked down to' for not holding the popular opinion.

Lol except I agree with you on that front, haven't you realised this? Why are you still going for this "fighting the man" approach all the time? Countless times I have actually said I agree with you on most music fronts in terms of disliking manufactured pop etc. Yet you continue to have this everyman struggle against me, like you're trying to fight the power, seriously what are you arguing about?

But there's a difference berween saying something's crap and saying this

if you think Basshunter's good, you're a cloth-eared prize moron

I mean seriously look at the bits of my quotes you quoted in the last post and find the main point I'm arguing with. It's not what you think, it's your random superiority complex you dress it with.

So instead of just throwing out insults instead of actually replying to what I said please actually understand what I'm saying or by all means carry on going on your crusade against the man if you like, whatever suits you.

March 11, 2009

Okay, maybe I was being a bit harsh, but you make it sound like I'm the only person in the world that thinks corporate ****-sucking is a bad thing. There's music, and there's the music business, and I think it's incredibly naive to think that the people interested in making money out of it have our best interests at heart. If being all things to all people and making a mint are the most important aspects of songwriting to you, by all means go for it, but don't expect people to respect you for it. There are a lot of people out there who only listen to the music they are given by mainstream media - how can those people possibly have a valid opinion on what the best music is, if they don't know or care what else is out there?

March 11, 2009

Okay, maybe I was being a bit harsh, but you make it sound like I'm the only person in the world that thinks corporate ****-sucking is a bad thing. There's music, and there's the music business, and I think it's incredibly naive to think that the people interested in making money out of it have our best interests at heart. If being all things to all people and making a mint are the most important aspects of songwriting to you, by all means go for it, but don't expect people to respect you for it. There are a lot of people out there who only listen to the music they are given by mainstream media - how can those people possibly have a valid opinion on what the best music is, if they don't know or care what else is out there?

Lol but I'm not making it sound like the only thing, as I said look at what I;m arguing with you for.

I don't deny there are people out there who want to make money, heck look at countless managers, A & R men, Simon Cowell types etc who are 100% about that.

I totally agree with you that corporate schmoozing is a bad thing.

Never did I say being all things to all people and making a mint are the most important things, all I said was people who've written multi-million selling pop songs clearly have talent, because ultimately it's a memorable song if you remember years later. So whoever wrote Hit Me Baby One More Time, I'd call a talented songwriter. Forget everything else, it's simply a catchy pop tune. That's why millions bought it, millions remember it and millions still love it.

I respect whoever wrote it because they clearly put a lot of effort into making a hit. Yes it's all part of a package, but the package means diddy squat if you haven't something at least decent to back it up. It doesn't have to be King Crimson though, because that's not who its being aimed at. But do you not think it's equally as difficult to write a pop song which is remembered 40-50 years later like Let It Be, as it is to say write the next Mars Volta? Completely different degrees of difficulty. Does that mean I have to like it? Course not, but I can understand the difficulty and thus respect them when it all comes off.

There are a lot of people out there who only listen to the music they are given by mainstream media - how can those people possibly have a valid opinion on what the best music is, if they don't know or care what else is out there?

You're getting yourself into a black hole. How does anyone know what the best music is? You can't listen to everything and ultimately its down to taste.

If someone's into cheesy pop music, you could spend the rest of your life telling them Elbow are the greatest UK band of the last 25 years but it won't change their opinion because it's not what they like. I have friends who try to get me into John Coltrane or Weather Report, sorry just can't get into it, so does that mean my opinion is no longer valid?

As I said you're asking a question which can't possibly be answered. A lot of those people only listen to mainstream music because music doesn't mean as much to them, or they treat it differently. I might mean their opinion is less knowledgeable but certainly not less valid. I mean how can it be? Why does somebody knowing more about something means they have more worth over what's good and bad?

You're arguing that by listening to more music they are a better judge of tastes. How can that even be possible? How do you classify what the best music is? You take 2 people who have over 10,000 records in their collection and you think they'll agree? Course not, so whose opinion is less valid?

March 13, 2009

Okay sir, I'm sure everyone is as bored as us going over the same thing as we obviously are, so I proclaim you winner.

I'm off to get some tips from Abu Hamza on how to treat women, because opinions can never be wrong, and possibly stop off to catch malaria on the way. Hey, a lot of people have it, and it's catchy! It must be good!

March 13, 2009

Okay sir, I'm sure everyone is as bored as us going over the same thing as we obviously are, so I proclaim you winner.

I'm off to get some tips from Abu Hamza on how to treat women, because opinions can never be wrong, and possibly stop off to catch malaria on the way. Hey, a lot of people have it, and it's catchy! It must be good!

Jeez, I'm astonished how after 4 pages or so of basically telling you the same thing you're still missing the point...

So for 1 final time.

Yes opinions can never be wrong. But at what point did I say you have to listen to them or use them? Do what you like with them just don't tell them their wrong because that's impossible, because it's based on personal feelings.

Secondly, when did I say it must be good? All I said is if you write a song and 100 million people buy it and remember it 25 years later, it's unbelievably naive to assume "oh it's just cause they are media savvy and have a good marketing team, clearly they have no talent, it's dead easy to write that"

And I'm spent.

Edited March 13, 2009 by Jung

March 15, 2009

Which is where you fail :P

Seriously, you've heard Reasonable Doubt et al and you dont think he's up there with the greatest? Who do you think are the greatest then, out of interest?

Agreed, Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint are two of the best Hip Hop albums of all time... The fact that he never uses a pen or pad should say it all really.

Renegade feat Eminem is one of the greatest Hip Hop tracks of all time. Although Em does piss all over Jay on that one. lol

I agree that Nas and a few others are better lyrically, but as a COMPLETE artist he is head and shoulders above most.

I also agree that the Beatles are VERY overated.

Underated- Chuck Berry, Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters, Little Richard, Bo Diddley, Sammy Davis Jr, Dean Martin, Living Colour, Onyx, Styles P, Rage Against The Machine, Guy, Blackstreet, Kano.

Overated- Elvis Presley, Beach Boys, Take That, Westlife, Girls Aloud, Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys, Madonna, The Kooks, Dizee Rascal(i like him but still), The Streets, Lil' Wayne, FLO-RIDA, Rick Ross.

Edited March 15, 2009 by Thirteen