Strikeforce World Grand Prix

[Guest Jack]

Honestly, I don't think if he was in the UFC, his legacy would be that much greater, even though he did have a poor list of opponents after PRIDE. If he wins the GP, he'd have added more to the legacy he already has, than he could possibly have gained beating the farcical heavyweights the UFC has pimped in recent years. Their champions have been: Sylvia, Couture, Nog, Lesnar, Mir, Carwin and Velasquez. A pretty poor list of fighters, I think.

 

Obviously just being the 'UFC heavyweight champion' would be a big positive but the quality of opponents has never been great at heavyweight, so I'm not sure how much it would add to his legacy.

[DC 536]

Their champions have been: Sylvia, Couture, Nog, Lesnar, Mir, Carwin and Velasquez. A pretty poor list of fighters, I think.

Serious question; why do you hate UFC so much? In fact, why do you seem to despise non-boxers so much? Edited January 16, 2011 by DC

[Guest Frank Botch]

I don't know if Jack is biased, becasue I havn't read enough of his posts, but I totally agree with him on this, in fact he beat me to listing all the champions. Who else was around the HW division? Mir has been done for a while, Carwin is a joke, Nelson(nah), JDS is pretty unproven, Coutures glass chin would have been broken and on and on. His quality of opposition in Strikeforce and Affliction was around the same level. And his fights in this GP will be way tougher than anything the UFC have to offer right now, and I'm not sure anyone in even Pride was as roided as Overeem(which is saying something).

 

As an aside I have nothing against fans who only watch the UFC, it's just a little annoying when they think UFC=MMA.

[Guest Rikidozan]

Carwin a joke?...that flies totally over my head. I guess because he's big and powerful, and doesn't use intricate Omoplatas or Peruvian neckties that means he has no crediblity is a fighter. As Alan Patridge would say, needless to say, I disagree. While I loathe to even elude to Pride Vs. UFC fanboyism, if you think the current UFC HW division isn't up to much, what about the Pride HW division during the promotion's so-called glory years?...yes, the company had Fedor, CroCop, Noegueira, Herring and a few others, but they also booked Sentoryu Vs. Giant Silva, Fedor Vs. Zulu (!)freakin(!) Zinho (on their biggest show of the year!), Sefan Leko Vs. Nayoya Ogawa. C'mon, the Pride HW division was a joke at times, while the UFC 265lbs division can draw over a million buys a few times a year.

 

And to Beltster...yup, like everything in Putin's Russia, mind.

 

@Frank, but that's exactly how it is now, because of the unparalleled success of the UFC. Like it or not, the UFC is No.1, while everything else is a very small, niche alternative. Like the WWF, circa 1984-onwards.

[Guest Frank Botch]

The fact that Carwin has no stamina whatsoever, punched Lesnar's arms weakly for five minutes and then lay down and got choked out like a bitch. He tapped to Brock Lesner. He's done in my eyes, no way I can respect the dude as a fighter.

 

And throwing Toney in against Couture was as big a joke and insult as anything Pride ever did, probably worse in fact because Toney had no chance at all. It was embarrassing to watch. Also of course in Pride there was Hunt, Coleman, Randleman, Schilt and Lindland when all those guys were animals. But yeah Pride vs UFC debates never end well so... yup agree to disagree and all that nonsense.

 

Just because UFC are No. 1 doesn't automatically make their fighters better then other feds was my point, a lot of people will say it does. I once saw someone say that Carwin is better then Fedor ''because he's in the UFC'', I mean... come on.

[Paul 584]

I'd hardly say he punched Lesnars arm 'weakly'. :lol

[Guest Frank Botch]

Yeah this: ''punched Lesnar's arms weakly for five minutes'' contains a couple of exaggerations... but after that opening flurry and a few puches on the ground he totally ran out of steam and was throwing really weak shit. I mean he's supposed to be a professional and it was just a joke that he gassed like that. Look at Maynard last week, he didn't stop for the entire first round and still fought at a high level for twenty more minutes. And avoided being raped in the second.

 

I do not like Carwin. Dude should learn some Peruvian neckties and Ninja chokes...

[Guest Jack]

Serious question; why do you hate UFC so much? In fact, why do you seem to despise non-boxers so much?

:lol I'm not exactly sure where I'd start this off, honestly.

 

I don't like where they are going with MMA, in all honesty. As long as the UFC is thriving, they are happy for other companies to go out of business and eventually, we'll be left with a mainstream monopoly of the sport. I've watched MMA for years now and trained in different aspects of it and that monopoloy is one thing I don't want to see. It may be good for the few fighters under a contract, yeah, and it's certainly good for the people involved with the UFC but the rest of MMA is suffering and it will continue to do so because of the aggressive promotion by the UFC. If a promotion is flat lining and they want to buy it out, fair enough. However, they have contributed to the death of rival companies and I can't support that. Let's be realistic about it, no company is going to seriously challenge the UFC any time soon and wouldn't have in the past, so that aggressive promotion that the UFC practices isn't to ensure that they remain the biggest company around, it's to eliminate every other company out there. If they do that yet stay on TV, on PPV etc., then they have the fighters over a barrel, which brings me on to my next point.

 

The fighters in the company are getting way, way underpaid and it's a disgrace. Considering the amount of PPV buys these guys are getting, it's bullshit they are paid so little. In boxing, which rarely touches the average UFC buyrate, guys are getting millions per fight. Floyd Mayweather could return in a few months and with one fight, he'd earn more than any UFC headliner will in his entire career. For 36 minutes against any top 10 opponent, Mayweather would make far more than any fighter contracted to the UFC. Even their biggest draws like Lesnar, GSP etc., are getting paid peanuts from what they actually bring into the company and what can they do? Nothing. They're getting raped whilst the greedy people in suits take all the profits. People complain that Premiership footballers earn a lot of money, but they bring everything in so they deserve it. If that money went to the directors, it would be bullshit and in the UFC, the fighters are on crap wages and the owners are getting all the profit. They can do that because there's no rival promotion, which goes back to the point I made above.

 

As for the product, it's ok. I'm genuinely not that entertained by what I see the majority of the time because of the various rules. I think the UFC is soft and lacks the edge that made MMA into a success in the first place. Not their fault, no, but it doesn't mean I have to enjoy it because it's not their fault. Relating to the product though, I hate how many fighters are so obviously on steroids yet nothing happens. I think it's a joke in MMA, no matter which company, but the UFC's fighters are pretty much untouchable, which makes it even worse. Whoever they decide to push, that fighter will be given leeway. Look at the Sonnen case for that and then ask yourself how a guy like Carwin or Lesnar can go unpunished. They obviously have the t-shirt sellers, and the lighting and sound guys pissing into a lot of cups.

 

Sticking to the product itself, I can't stand the fans who listen to Joe Rogan, buy an Affliction t-shirt and think they have more knowledge on the sport than Helio Gracie had. I like MMA a lot but I see it as a fad that will eventually slow down and when it does, these fans will be the first to jump ship. The fans really annoy me and I don't mean on here particularly, but the ones who attend the shows. Not exactly the UFC's fault, I know, but it does actually turn me away from the sport, when you get fans clapping after boring intervals and then Joe Rogan piping in with "THESE FANS KNOW MMA, MAN, I'M TELLING YOU, BRO, THESE GUYS GET IT!". It's just awful.

 

I could go on but, honestly, there's not many things I do like about it. I enjoy certain guys on the roster and some fights are entertaining but it's not a product I really enjoy. PRiDE, in comparison, was a much better company from a fans point of view. That company was on a different level in terms of giving back and delivering top quality action.

 

As for boxing, I prefer boxing to any form of MMA, yeah. I think it's a much more entertaining sport, basically. I don't dislike MMA fighters though. I'm an MMA fan but I wouldn't consider myself a UFC fan. Given the UFC's desire for monopolization, I don't think you'll be able to say that for much longer.

[Guest Kasabifan]

Yeah this: ''punched Lesnar's arms weakly for five minutes'' contains a couple of exaggerations... but after that opening flurry and a few puches on the ground he totally ran out of steam and was throwing really weak shit. I mean he's supposed to be a professional and it was just a joke that he gassed like that. Look at Maynard last week, he didn't stop for the entire first round and still fought at a high level for twenty more minutes. And avoided being raped in the second.

 

I do not like Carwin. Dude should learn some Peruvian neckties and Ninja chokes...

 

 

 

 

I've heard the 'Carwin has awful cardio' debate numerous times and its just totally misinformed. It wasn't really a matter of cardio anyway.

 

Fighting can be both an aerobic and anaerobic activity. Now aerobic means keeping your body around a peak heart rate and taking in sufficient oxygen while anaerobic means going way past that and not taking in sufficient oxygen. Now your body can function for a very long time aerobically if your in great condition, but you still cant go crazy. I mean look at GSP, Hughes, Velasquez and all the other guys known for great cardio, they still dont go ape shit like Carwin did.

 

Now when you train for a fight, you generally will do conditioning drills that look like what Carwin was doing to Lesnar. The idea of the drill is to push yourself so hard that you have nothing left. Usually you do this for 30 second to minute bursts with about thirty seconds to a minute rest in between. Carwin went at it like that for close to 3 minutes without stopping. Then, only got about a minute to recover between rounds.

 

Now if you stay in an anaerobic state for too long, your body starts producing lactic acid everywhere (you should already know this) because its not getting the oxygen it needs. Basically your body thinks its dying and this can cause your limbs to feel like jelly or very heavy and even cause painful cramping. This is to get you to stop using your muscles so that the oxygen that is being taken in, goes to your organs. To be able to recover you will need time at least equal to your time of exertion. Carwin did not have that. Making him a sitting duck in the next round to a relatively fresh Lesnar.

 

I could go on forever but you're probably already bored.

 

In simple terms, he had a bad adrenaline dump. Happens to the best of fighters.

[Guest Frank Botch]

Oh yeah I remember Carwin came out and blamed the adrenaline dump too but still... I don't like the man(not as insightful or informative as the post above but... yup).

 

Anyway, here's Fedor on a f*cking HORSE.

 

http://efedor.ru/img/photo/big/574.jpg

[Guest Rikidozan]

On the SK HW tourney, what's everyone's thoughts on Gabriel Gonzaga being/not being in the touney? He's a name fighter, been with the UFC for a number years, has that CroCop win. Thoughts?...

[Guest Kasabifan]

He retired from MMA, hes only competing in the Mundials from now on. Even if that wasnt the case, no. Hes just too one-dimensional for me, kind of reminds me of Rampage. Has this great BJJ background but chooses to get in stand up wars instead of using those skills.

 

He'd probably only have a shot against Arlovski, and even then its 50/50.

[Guest Rikidozan]

He says he's retired...he'll be back, trust me. In regards to him being too one-dimensional...Brett Rogers, is all. With SF struggling in the way they are, I'd probably book Gabe Gonzaga almost for name-recognition alone. It's not like Coker and co. have the luxury of picking from a ton of fighters that are both known and credible.

 

On the tournament itself, it's predictions time (put your picks in bold)...

 

February 12th

Fedor Emelianenko versus Antonio Silva

Andrei Arlovski versus Sergey Kharitonov

 

April (date TBA)

Alistair Overeem versus Fabricio Werdum

Josh Barnett versus Brett Rogers

[Guest Dusty Finish]

Gonzaga I liken to Vera, Belfort & Mir- the natural ability to be something special is undoubtedly there. There's just something intangible missing. Anyroadup, first round fights almost pick themselves.....

 

 

February 12th

Fedor Emelianenko versus Antonio Silva

Andrei Arlovski versus Sergey Kharitonov

 

April (date TBA)

Alistair Overeem versus Fabricio Werdum

Josh Barnett versus Brett Rogers

[Guest Kasabifan]

I have the same picks as above, but Werdum beating Overeem.

 

Is this on TV in UK anywhere? I think Bravo used to show Strikeforce, but they've been scrapped now.

[Guest Rikidozan]

I read some blurb not to long ago about SF being on EuroSport/ES 2, haven't seen anything recently though, hope they get a spot on UK television.

[Guest Frank Botch]

Last show was on Bravo 2 the Monday after it happened, pretty sure they show the Challengers shows too. I usually catch a stream so never watch on there but I wanted to watch the whole Henderson/Babalu card again and a bunch of forums pointed out when it was on so I caught it again. They kinda messed around when they show it though, used to be Sunday then changed to Wednesday then to Monday.

 

Same GP predictions as Dusty. On another note Fedor's camp are demanding strict drug testing if he gets to the semi finals, which could prove troublesome for Overeem. If you know what I mean.

 

 

He's on steroids.

 

Edited January 20, 2011 by Frank Botch

[Guest Frank Botch]

This trailer is pretty awesome, I could've done without seeing Fedor/Werdum again though, I'd almost wiped that from my memory.

 

[YOUTUBE]6HBIavLiCxM[/YOUTUBE]

[Guest Rikidozan]

...Frank, please don't tell me you're a Fedor Fanboy.

[Guest Frank Botch]

I thought I had hidden it so well... but 'fanboy' is personally offensive and I demand a retraction. If Fedor ever did anything that needed criticizing I'd do it, it's just... never come up. And I mean he's the greatest fighter/man ever so yeah, I like him.

 

http://www.mma-core.com/images/fighters/full/Fedor_Emelianenko_1000760.jpg

 

Look at him!

 

Also I'm aware I took this thread all over the place mentioning Carwin/Brock, posting Fedor pics etc. From now on all GP all the time.