Transformers: Dark of the Moon

[Guest Phil]

Revenge of the Fallen was an abomination of a film. The explosions and fighting scenes were good, and Devastator was good too. Aaaand, Soundwave was a great character too; faithful-ish to G1 and pretty creepy. Trouble is, and I think I have a genuine point here, no-one had heard of The Fallen, aside from, perhaps, extreme fan-boys. Replace "The Fallen" with - I don't know - "Unicron", or "Galvatron" or "Thunderwing" and, even if the film plays out similarly to as it does now, perhaps we'd enjoy the villain a bit more?

 

it's a fair point, but then Skids, Mudflap, Jolt, Sideways, Flareup and Chromia weren't exactly A list characters back in the day and no-one seems to be complaining. I don't think it was the choice of villain that ruined the film, it was shit writing, shit characterisation, shit ending, emphasis on the wrong people etc, etc.

 

Plus, Galvatron is a re-formatted Megatron, and Bay has already stated he didn't include Galvatron in ROTF because he didn't want to confuse people. Plus, with the Fallen already having been introduced, it paves the way for Unicron to appear later.

 

Shockwave though; they have an opportunity to make a really memorable villain. In G1, Shockwave was cold, calculating, and only acted on pure logic. If you needed to be killed, and logic dictated that it was a good idea, then he'd kill you, friend or foe. Plus, they've GOT to stay faithful to Shockwave's face; that singular eye (light-bulb thing) and that's it. Shockwave's face is iconic, and if Bay's not careful then he could put off a lot of "20 and 30-somethings" straight away, especially if they are expecting the Shockwave they remember.

 

Shockwave in the comics was a ruthless warrior, in the cartoon he was Megatron's bitch.

 

And they've already changed the characteristics of Prime and Starscream, so what's stopping them from doing it with Soundwave.

[Guest Da Showstoppa]

Shockwave has been confirmed as the main villain and Michael Bay has promised to make up for "all the shit you had to suffer" in the second film.

 

Are you just making that up? Mind you the shit in the second film was considerable, but thanks to the magic of DVD I skipped most of it.

[Guest Saz]

Nah, I hope DC is right, and, to be fair to DC, he's usually on the pulse.

[Guest Boyo]

it's a fair point, but then Skids, Mudflap, Jolt, Sideways, Flareup and Chromia weren't exactly A list characters back in the day and no-one seems to be complaining.

Mudflaps, Jolt, Sideways, Flareup and Chromia weren't ever actual characters! :P. Skids was a minor, low-ranking little scamp though, whereas Shockwave was a main villain. You can't really compare the low-key, much-changed inclusion of Skids in TF: ROTF to the possible inclusion of Shockwave.

 

For the sake of argument, in the first film, the Decepticons had a character called Onslaught. There was a minor Decepticon character back in G1 called Onslaught as well. G1 Onslaught was nothing like movie Onslaught, and, other than really whiny TF fanboys (of which I am not ;)) there was no real issue with the creative reimagining of Onslaught.

 

However, the likes of Jazz, Ratchet, Ironhide and Bumblebee (iconic Autobots and major characters in G1) were kept rather close to their G1-ness in the Film.

 

Going forward, should Michael Bay want to put in other major, frontline characters in the new Films, like Grimlock, Shockwave, Omega Supreme or Ultra Magnus then they'd have no choice than to remain really quite faithful to the G1 character. Well, ideally anyway.

 

I thought what they did with Soundwave was really good. It was clearly Soundwave in every way other thatn the fact that he wasn't a tape player :P.

 

Cheers!

[Guest Phil]

Mudflaps, Jolt, Sideways, Flareup and Chromia weren't ever actual characters! :P. Skids was a minor, low-ranking little scamp though, whereas Shockwave was a main villain. You can't really compare the low-key, much-changed inclusion of Skids in TF: ROTF to the possible inclusion of Shockwave.

 

Flareup and Chromia did actually appear in a couple of G1 Episodes. But my point was that you said the Fallen was a poor villain because nobody had heard of him, I'm saying that there were other characters in the second film that nobody had ever heard of, and nobody seemed to complain about that.

 

 

For the sake of argument, in the first film, the Decepticons had a character called Onslaught. There was a minor Decepticon character back in G1 called Onslaught as well. G1 Onslaught was nothing like movie Onslaught, and, other than really whiny TF fanboys (of which I am not ;)) there was no real issue with the creative reimagining of Onslaught.

 

However, the likes of Jazz, Ratchet, Ironhide and Bumblebee (iconic Autobots and major characters in G1) were kept rather close to their G1-ness in the Film.

 

there was no character called Onslaught in the first film, there was one called Brawl, and they were both part of Bruticus in the G1 series so they weren't exactly minor characters, not major either, but that's not my point.

 

No problems with re-imaginings, again that's not my point.

 

Going forward, should Michael Bay want to put in other major, frontline characters in the new Films, like Grimlock, Shockwave, Omega Supreme or Ultra Magnus then they'd have no choice than to remain really quite faithful to the G1 character. Well, ideally anyway.

 

I thought what they did with Soundwave was really good. It was clearly Soundwave in every way other thatn the fact that he wasn't a tape player :P.

 

Cheers!

 

Yeah I liked Soundwave too, realistically they'd have to change Grimlock to something less ridiculous, which would be stupid, they may as well use a different character.

 

My point is nothing to do with re-imagining characters, it's all to do with character selection. you said you thought the Fallen was a bad villain because he only appeared in the comics. I'm saying that there were a plethora of similarly obscure characters in both sides. Character choice isn't necessarily a problem, it's the way those characters were written that caused ROTF to stink so much.

 

 

For example, how am I supposed to form an opinion on Jolt, Arcee, Chromia, Flareup, Sideways, Rampage, Mixmaster and Demolisher when they either don't speak or appear on screen for a matter of seconds. They could have picked one of my favourite characters and put him in the second film and I would probably have ended up hating him.

[DC 536]

But my point was that you said the Fallen was a poor villain because nobody had heard of him, I'm saying that there were other characters in the second film that nobody had ever heard of, and nobody seemed to complain about that.

The difference between The Fallen and those other characters is that none of the others were the main villain of the movie, the character that most of the pre-release buzz centred on and that the pre-hype built up to be this Mega-Decepticon who could destroy all of the Autobots in a heartbeat.

[Guest Phil]

The difference between The Fallen and those other characters is that none of the others were the main villain of the movie, the character that most of the pre-release buzz centred on and that the pre-hype built up to be this Mega-Decepticon who could destroy all of the Autobots in a heartbeat.

 

exactly, and that's why the writing needed to be top notch, which it wasn't.

[Paul 584]

there was no character called Onslaught in the first film, there was one called Brawl.

 

No there wasnt. There was one called Devastator who was credited as Brawl in some of the merchendise.

[Guest Phil]

No there wasnt. There was one called Devastator who was credited as Brawl in some of the merchendise.

 

agreed, in the film he was called Devastator, but, aside from the film and novel, every piece of Merchandise noted him as Brawl, and even Bay said he should have been called Brawl. Apparently the name Devastator was an oversight that wasn't picked up until it was too late.

 

EDIT: Ok, so it was Orci that said the official name was Brawl, but either way it's one of those things that most people wouldn't really pick up on, or care about.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Phil

[Guest Da Showstoppa]

Speaking of original characters, the Police car in G1 was an Autobot, wasn't he? I think his name was Prowl.

[Guest Saz]

That's right, except I think Prowl was a Nissan, rather than a Pony.

[DC 536]

Minor accident on the set of Transformers 3.

 

A police SUV, responding to a real emergency, was sideswiped by a stunt-Bumblebee in Washington, D.C.

[Maxximus 353]

That's not the first accident to happen while filming this movie. I heard a woman was nearly killed during one incident.

[etz 78]

Damn, Bumblebee's a closet Decepticon....

[Guest Phil]

That's not the first accident to happen while filming this movie. I heard a woman was nearly killed during one incident.

 

yeah that was recently resolved though wasn't it? She was hit by debris and now has brain damage or something, but the investigation said it was a freak accident and every safety precaution was in place as it should be.

[Guest Boyo]

Flareup and Chromia did actually appear in a couple of G1 Episodes.

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely not. No they didn't. Not ever. Not once.

 

EDIT: Upon re-reading that, I now do doubt myself :lol.

 

But my point was that you said the Fallen was a poor villain because nobody had heard of him' date=' I'm saying that there were other characters in the second film that nobody had ever heard of, and nobody seemed to complain about that.[/quote']

Yeah possibly you're right about that, but DC also nailed the point I was going to make on the head, and which you also backed up. I don't mind that The Fallen was a minor, little-known character and was made a super-villain, but the way it panned out in the film was atrocious, making the fact that he was minor seem a terrible choice in hindsight.

 

Major Deceptivillains you can choose from are Megatron, Galvatron, Shockwave, Soundwave, Starscream, Unicron, Thunderwing, Devastator and probably Bludgeon. I am a bit of a purist and think that whilst you can make little-known characters in to minor characters, or simply create a brand new character as a minor character... if you take a risk and create a brand new major villain then you've got to get in absolutely bang-on, and they failed Les Miserables with The Fallen.

 

there was no character called Onslaught in the first film' date='[/quote']

Yes there was, padre. I stand to be corrected on exactly which one Onslaught actually was but I believe he was the helicopter in the opening scene.

 

there was one called Brawl' date='[/quote']

Are you sure? I'm not :lol.

 

and they were both part of Bruticus in the G1 series

But you are right about that.

 

Yeah I liked Soundwave too' date=' realistically they'd have to change Grimlock to something less ridiculous, which would be stupid, they may as well use a different character.[/quote']

Yeah Grimlock is a tough one to call. What can you do with Grimlock? I think the fact that he transformed in to a God-damned dinosaur totally made the character in G1, and I can't really see how it would work in the "Bayniverse".

 

The comics (and the new IDW comics for that matter) got around that by stating that long before "G1" actually kicked off, "a Decepticon" (usually Shockwave) went on a secret mission long before anything else happenned and was tailed by Grimlock & co. It all kicked off on Earth and, in a panic, they were given the ability to transform into Dinosaurs. I don't see why that couldn't work again.

 

Saying that, out of all of the characters, Soundwave and Grimlock are probably the two major characters that purist G1 fans (like me) would allow for the most re-imagining because a tape players and a T-Rex just cannot work in 2010. Grimlock needs to be something outrageous, because he's Grimlock; it'll be interesting to see how they tackle him, if they ever decide to.

 

Then again, I've just typed all that out and remembered that Bay made Scorponok a f*cking scorpion-type-thing so maybe Grimlock can work as a "T-Rex-ish-thing" too?

 

Cheers!

Edited October 17, 2010 by Boyo

[Guest Phil]

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely not. No they didn't. Not ever. Not once.

 

EDIT: Upon re-reading that, I now do doubt myself :lol.

 

The episode was called 'The Female autobots' and had Elita-1, Flareup Chromia and Moonracer all operating from an underground base on Cybertron. Elita-1 was captured by Shockwave and had to be rescued by Optimus Prime. I also believe Alpha Trion was in the episode too, and I think it was this episode that revealed Elita-1 used to be Ariel before she was reformatted.

 

 

Yeah possibly you're right about that, but DC also nailed the point I was going to make on the head, and which you also backed up. I don't mind that The Fallen was a minor, little-known character and was made a super-villain, but the way it panned out in the film was atrocious, making the fact that he was minor seem a terrible choice in hindsight.

 

Major Deceptivillains you can choose from are Megatron, Galvatron, Shockwave, Soundwave, Starscream, Unicron, Thunderwing, Devastator and probably Bludgeon. I am a bit of a purist and think that whilst you can make little-known characters in to minor characters, or simply create a brand new character as a minor character... if you take a risk and create a brand new major villain then you've got to get in absolutely bang-on, and they failed Les Miserables with The Fallen.

 

agreed, they had the chance of a clean slate with the Fallen because he was so unknown. They had no history to work with, nobody outside of comic readers would know who he was, and even then I think he only appeared in one issue and was swiftly dealt with by Primus. But yeah, they majorly f*cked him up.

 

 

Yes there was, padre. I stand to be corrected on exactly which one Onslaught actually was but I believe he was the helicopter in the opening scene.

 

the helicopter at the start was Blackout. The Decepticons from the first film are Megatron, Starscream, Blackout, Scorponok, Barricade, Brawl (called Devastator in the films subtitles) and Frenzy.

 

 

Are you sure? I'm not :lol.

 

Yup, the tank was called Devastator during the film, but the film-makers have stated that he was supposed to be Brawl, and every piece of related merchandise has him named as Brawl.

 

 

But you are right about that.

 

yup, Onslaught was the main body, and brawl was a leg if I'm not mistaken.

 

 

Yeah Grimlock is a tough one to call. What can you do with Grimlock? I think the fact that he transformed in to a God-damned dinosaur totally made the character in G1, and I can't really see how it would work in the "Bayniverse".

 

The comics (and the new IDW comics for that matter) got around that by stating that long before "G1" actually kicked off, "a Decepticon" (usually Shockwave) went on a secret mission long before anything else happenned and was tailed by Grimlock & co. It all kicked off on Earth and, in a panic, they were given the ability to transform into Dinosaurs. I don't see why that couldn't work again.

 

Saying that, out of all of the characters, Soundwave and Grimlock are probably the two major characters that purist G1 fans (like me) would allow for the most re-imagining because a tape players and a T-Rex just cannot work in 2010. Grimlock needs to be something outrageous, because he's Grimlock; it'll be interesting to see how they tackle him, if they ever decide to.

 

Then again, I've just typed all that out and remembered that Bay made Scorponok a f*cking scorpion-type-thing so maybe Grimlock can work as a "T-Rex-ish-thing" too?

 

Cheers!

 

I don't read the comics so I can't comment on IDW or Dreamwave stuff, but yeah Bay massively downgraded Scorponol from leader of the Decepticons into a piece of shit, so there's no reason why he couldn't change Grimlock. If they had to include him then I think the best way would be to have him as a massive junker type vehicle, armoured to the teeth with spikes on the front or something. If he's a sleek sports car then I'll be disappointed a little.

[Guest AndreaBen]

Support the classic

[The Icon 152]

is this real or fake?

 

sounds like a bay thing

 

If it is real it is obviously an early draft, not final.

Edited October 28, 2010 by The Icon

[DC 536]

is this real or fake?

 

sounds like a bay thing

 

If it is real it is obviously an early draft, not final.

It may be an early draft (it has the original love interest in it when we all know Fox is history) and there's a few grammar/spelling errors that scream fake to me.

 

Either way, it's not the script the movie is going to work from.