Music Club 11.5: Is This The Worst Song You've Ever Heard?

[Guest Boyo]

So because the Eminen track was good, the Sleazy Ant track must be as well?

 

Shao, you are so misjudged in your points it's almost embarrassing to read. "My Name Is..." is about as Horrorcore as "Gangsta's Paradise". Sure, it contains some violent lyrics, but it's a song about stepping on 90's pop icons in order to establish himself. Hey guys, I may have had a tough start and may look like a bit of a loser, but I'm still talented enough to take your place at the top of the tree. That's what "My Name Is..." is about.

 

Sure, Eminem was indeed very loosely linked with Horrorcore in the late 90's as his earliest stuff was about nightmares and adopting a violent alter-ego in order to live out his violent fantasies. And it was his talent that got him noticed by Dr Dre, and then he took off.

 

Nothing Eminem has done since meeting Dre has been Horrorcore. Nothing. Em, like pretty much all rappers ever, is pretty much purely autobiographical in nature.

 

I think a very early Eminem track called "Watch Dis" (or something like that) is what I would call one of his Horrorcore tracks. And even that is waaaaaaay better than Stinky Aunt.

 

EDIT: in fact, here you go:

[VIDEO=YOUTUBE;bK5zlzJ_ERo]

[/VIDEO]

 

Cheers!

Edited July 6, 2014 by Boyo

[ShaolinHandLock 73]

Chorus vocals are too loud compared to the backing track, vocals of the other rappers vary in volume, the beat is too trebley, there was something else about the hook that was wrong but I'm not going to listen to that abortion again just to point out that it may not have anything wrong with it production wise within the confines of the musical diarrhea that is Horrorcore but those are just a few points I can pick out as "wrong" in general. So yeah, again objectivity non-existent.

 

Are you listening to it through a potato or something? If anything, the chorus vocals could be louder, and the vocals of all the verses are mixed to the same audio level.

 

Shao, you are so misjudged in your points it's almost embarrassing to read. "My Name Is..." is about as Horrorcore as "Gangsta's Paradise". Sure, it contains some violent lyrics, but it's a song about stepping on 90's pop icons in order to establish himself. Hey guys, I may have had a tough start and may look like a bit of a loser, but I'm still talented enough to take your place at the top of the tree. That's what "My Name Is..." is about.

 

Sure, Eminem was indeed very loosely linked with Horrorcore in the late 90's as his earliest stuff was about nightmares and adopting a violent alter-ego in order to live out his violent fantasies. And it was his talent that got him noticed by Dr Dre, and then he took off.

 

Nothing Eminem has done since meeting Dre has been Horrorcore. Nothing. Em, like pretty much all rappers ever, is pretty much purely autobiographical in nature.

 

So I should ignore all the critics, fans, other rappers, and general consensus that consider The Slim Shady LP, The Marshall Mathers LP, and to a lesser extent some of Relapse and Marshal Mathers LP 2 as Horrorcore?

 

If those works of Eminem don't count as Horrorcore, than neither does Insane Clown Posse, Tech N9ne, later era Vanilla Ice, and countless others, all of which are considered by many to be 'horrorcore'.

 

Eminem's work that is considered horrorcore fits within the mini-subgenre of horrorcore that is basically 'over the top lyrics with violence and exaggerated situations'.

 

This thread is hurting my head. I can't follow the specific example because I know absolutely nothing about it but Shao you seem to misunderstand objectivity and subjectivity. Take your last post as an example:

 

 

 

No, it can't. It's a movie, it's art. Objective means uninfluenced by personal tastes, feelings or experiences. Objective truths are things that are true regardless of your experience of them. They're tangible. "The general opinion" of The Room is just a collection of individual subjective opinions. It doesn't matter how many individual, subjective opinions there are that agree that it's a terrible movie, it is still subjective. If every person on earth watched the film and agreed it was terrible, that still wouldn't make it objectively terrible.

 

You seem to have this idea that some sort of technical proficiency negates something from being judged subjectively, without realising that technical proficiency is subjective itself:

 

 

 

Paul Cézanne was dismissed in this way. There's a genre of painting called bathers, and traditionally it was executed in a very technical, proficient, lifelike and "proper" way such as by Cezanne's contemporary William-Adolphe Bouguereau:

 

http://williambouguereau.org/Bathers%20William-Adolphe%20Bouguereau.jpg

 

Cézanne's take:

 

http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/upload/img/cezanne-bathers-les-grandes-baigneuses-NG6359-fm.jpg

 

His critics screamed that he couldn't paint, he was objectively bad. But he could. He could have painted the first painting because he was an excellent painter but he chose not to. "Production" and "execution" virtues and "mistakes" are subjective too.

 

But those two painting prove my point entirely, different styles don't equal inherently bad.....

 

EDIT - Oh and to Boyo, I forgot, Eminem's work with D12 is also considered horrorcore.

 

EDIT 2 - And Boyo, to prove my point that Eminem counts as horrorcore, is this evidence:

 

[video=youtube;XpTf2avGTJs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpTf2avGTJs

 

[video=youtube;v9Y-CSQor5s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Y-CSQor5s

 

And that's only two examples, both of which easily fit into the horrorcore genre.

Edited July 6, 2014 by ShaolinHandLock

[Omega 354]

You've yet again missed the point King is making. You said technique isn't subjective and King is pointing out it is. YOU are the only one trying to say that there is anything being talked about that has an objectively, factual, undeniable truth to it. Everyone else is pointing out it's about taste and opinion. You are being an utter moron for trying to argue down other people about their tastes. No one has done that to you, you are the one being the d*ck about it and saying we can't say the tracks you posted are the worst things we've ever heard. You don't get to do that. We don't tell you that you can't listen to Horrorcore because it's sh*t, you don't get to tell us we can't hate it. We can tell you we think it's sh*t and you can (if you wanted to be a pedantic tosser about it) argue with us that it isn't if you so desire but you can't call us "mental"... especially you can't call us mental because we don't like it.

 

If we want to attack a genre of music then we can, I'm sure the dribbling masses of Horrorcore rappers are positively quaking at what an IT consultant and a single father have to say about their music. When you review our posts and inevitably give them 2/10 because they aren't horrorcore you are entitled to do that and we're also entitled to point out what a narrow minded person you are because you simply can't elevate your mind to accept any other form of music as being "good" but we've never told you that you can't do it all the same just as you get to participate in this round of the music club.

 

We can question what you get out of doing it, why you would continually thrust yourself into a game where you have to expect to be listening to styles and genres of music you never normally listen to knowing that you're going to hate them because they aren't horrorcore. Why you would put yourself in the position to get so wound up about negative reviews. why you would bother to spend time trying to tell people they HAVE to rate something whilst at the same time never rating anything else. What we don't do is stop you taking part. No matter how much you spoil the game we never say "no" to you. Yet you have the balls to talk us down like we're mental feeble for slating a music track, like we're bad people or something.

[King 277]

I think your on about bigmatt Megz not me :lol

[ShaolinHandLock 73]

Good god....this is the deathmatch wrestling discussion all over again...

 

If we want to attack a genre of music then we can, I'm sure the dribbling masses of Horrorcore rappers are positively quaking at what an IT consultant and a single father have to say about their music. When you review our posts and inevitably give them 2/10 because they aren't horrorcore you are entitled to do that and we're also entitled to point out what a narrow minded person you are because you simply can't elevate your mind to accept any other form of music as being "good" but we've never told you that you can't do it all the same just as you get to participate in this round of the music club.

 

Well that's a complete load of crap for a start. I've expanded my musical tastes since those days, you act as if I only listen to horrorcore rap.....

 

We can question what you get out of doing it, why you would continually thrust yourself into a game where you have to expect to be listening to styles and genres of music you never normally listen to knowing that you're going to hate them because they aren't horrorcore. Why you would put yourself in the position to get so wound up about negative reviews. why you would bother to spend time trying to tell people they HAVE to rate something whilst at the same time never rating anything else. What we don't do is stop you taking part. No matter how much you spoil the game we never say "no" to you. Yet you have the balls to talk us down like we're mental feeble for slating a music track, like we're bad people or something.

 

I'm not 'wound up' over the negative reviews, I don't care what you rate them. I just don't get some of the generalisations and false nonsense said in this thread.

[Guest Boyo]

Until today, and bearing in mind I was a gigantic Eminem fan in his first few years, I've never heard him associated with Horrorcore. Not once.

 

I'm not a person to just obnoxiously think I'm definitely right though, so I googled "Eminem Horrorcore" to see the results, to see if it was widely accepted by all the critics and fans, as you say, who tell the world Eminem is Horrorcore.

 

And nope. Nothing. I was amused to find that Horrorcore has its own Wiki. I was also surprised to find as many forums on Horrorcore as I did. However everything I found was either fans of Horrorcore claiming Eminem as Horrorcore, or people who hate Eminem decrying him as Horrorcore.

 

There was nothing. Nothing. From anyone sane or rational or neutral saying that Eminem was Horrorcore.

 

And violent lyrics do not Horrorcore make either. Even Disney's Jungle Book has a fight scene.

 

Cheers!

[ViciousPrism 177]

I'm not gonna drop into this debate too much. 1) I think Horror-Core is largely shit, corny and shit. Did I mention shit? 2) The citation for Eminem being "horror-core" is a freakin' IGN review from 2004. Not Eminem's people, not Eminem, but one reviewer. Ace citation there Wikipedia. Also, the other link is from an unofficial fan site. No legit citations, anywhere. 2/10 try harder.

 

I'm gonna leave now. Tata.

[Guest John Hancock]

The evidence that "My Name Is" is a horrorcore song is pretty tenuous. If you actually go on that Wikipedia article, and click on the source that the article uses to justify that description, it links you to a review of the entire album that describes as having "ressurected the neo sub-genre of "horror-core" rap and given it a drug enhanced retro-fit". It's also a review on a video game website. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many music journalists calling Eminem "horror-ore".

 

The problem is that it's sort of one of those sub genres that doesn't really exist, like emo. The most noteworthy thing about the emo craze was that it was a term used almost entirely by people who didn't like it to describe things they didn't like. To actual fans of actual emo, or at least the genre the term originally came from, as in "emotional hardcore", bands like Jawbreaker and Sunny Day Real Estate or even certain Weezer albums, the fact that they were now in the same genre as H.I.M. and Panic! At The Disco was just bizarre. Horrorcore's a bit like that in the sense that it's a word people throw around too freely, but it's different in that it isn't generally used as an insult in the way that "emo" became a word that only people who didn't like pop-punk would use to describe pop-punk. Fans of certain punk subgenres spent about five years rabidly denying that anything was emo, whilst horrorcore rap fans have been spending the last ten year rabidly claiming that everything is horrorcore.

 

I've heard the term "horrorcore" used to describe everything from Three Six Mafia to Alkaline Trio and from Insane Clown Posse to My Chemical Romance. It's a very over used term. One of the big problems is it's a genre defined by it's lyrical content, to some people, it's basically any song about killing people. So it's "Stan" by Eminem, but then it's also basically "Sympathy For The Devil" by the Rolling Stones too. The problem is, when you start defining it as that, even if you just stick to rap, you run the risk of crossing over into gangsta rap, which is also almost entirely about killing people.

 

At it's core, if you want to be strict, horrorcore has to have a sense of theatre, it's beyond just murder, it's very schlocky and intentionally silly, in a fun way. It's not about reality or being relatable, it's usually about Satanism and eating people and being a zombie or something like that. You can take probably the most obvious horror-punk band, The Misfits, and listen to a song like "Astro Zombies" or "Last Caress" or "Saturday Night" and you can quickly go, "Okay, I get it, that's what that is", and, in horror-rap, you can do that with Gravediggaz or Tyler The Creator or Flatlinerz, they very quickly identifiable, and, just out of curiosity, I'd recommend some of the people in this thread listen to those three just to see what the genre is when it's done "well", at least in terms of critical success, because, so far, this thread has really been about the bottom of the barrel, and it might be interesting for people to see what, within the genre at least, is considered the top.

 

Generally, I'd say, if you don't know very quickly if it's horrorcore or not, it isn't.

Edited July 6, 2014 by John Hancock

[Omega 354]

3 pages to convince someone to respect other people's opinions. Why are we doing this? Why are we letting this happen? If you know someone isn't smart enough to not put themselves in a bad situation would you let them do it anyway? Would you let a drunk friend drive a car home? He's a danger to himself and other people even if he simply doesn't get it.

[Guest Inno]

I can honestly say I'd never heard the term horrorcore before this week!

 

I think this means I'm officially old and not down with the kids anymore. I'm like a less cool version of The Offspring.

[Guest John Hancock]

I can honestly say I'd never heard the term horrorcore before this week!

 

I think this means I'm officially old and not down with the kids anymore. I'm like a less cool version of The Offspring.

 

You're more uncool than old. The term's been around since the 80s in rap and the 70s in punk. It's not a new thing, it's just never been big.

 

The Misfits started in the mid-late 70s, although I don't think they had a proper album until the 80s, and horrorcore rap is supposed to have been "invented" on the Making Trouble album by the Ghetto Boys which, according to Wikipedia, was released in 1988. So the genre's about as old as I am.

Edited July 6, 2014 by John Hancock

[Guest Inno]

Ah, I've been uncool since the 80s too...

[Guest John Hancock]

By punk-rock standards, you've officially been uncool since 1977.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c0/Misfits_-_Cough-Cool_cover.jpg/220px-Misfits_-_Cough-Cool_cover.jpg

[Guest Inno]

Well, you gotta start young and work on these things.

 

(I did like Last Caress and So What though)

[Guest John Hancock]

Well, you gotta start young and work on these things.

 

(I did like Last Caress and So What though)

 

Did you just make the very uncool mistake of confusing The Misfits with Anti-Nowhere League? Good going Granddad.

[Guest dpddave]

Don't worry Inno, I'd never heard of horrorcore until today and I'm the coolest person I know.

[Guest Inno]

Did you just make the very uncool mistake of confusing The Misfits with Anti-Nowhere League? Good going Granddad.

 

eh, it's all horrorcore

 

ithangyew

[Guest John Hancock]

eh, it's all horrorcore

 

ANTI-NOWHERE LEAGUE AREN'T HORRORCORE, THEY'RE HARDCORE, YOU COMPLETE RETARD, GOD, YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK.

[Guest Inno]

What a time to be alive :)

[Guest Boyo]

An awful lot of music genres and sub-genres could also be used as villainous names. We already have Bebop and Rocksteady from TMNT, plus there's the Autobot, Jazz. But I can imagine Megatron handing out orders left, right and centre.

 

Megatron:Dubstep, fire up the ship. Heavy Metal, you are in charge of the Energon Cubes! Horrorcore, you are to Man the command post. Goth, I want you and Grime to scout for Autobots. Battle-Rap, you report to me. Anyone here cannot follow orders then you can explain that to Big Beat, who will send Grunge, Punk, Indie and J-Rock to tear you limb from limb for your subordination!

 

Cheers!