Who screwed who?

[Guest Simon]

Loving the analogy :D

 

Reading my reply there, apologies if I came across as an ass, but I still think the Meltzer report of it is worth a read. Since its supposedly his job to know more than your average smark with a website *cough*Scott Keith*cough* I think his notes on the incident are pretty interesting to read. For anyone who hasn't read it by the way you can see it Here

 

I'm not saying Bret shouldn't have dropped the belt, and that he wasn't an idiot for not doing so.. infact if you read the article I wrote,'Hart Condition' you'll see that although I'm a huge Hitman mark, I know he was a tit for not giving up the belt. I still think however when it comes down to it that Vince did not have to screw Bret the way that he did.

 

If Vince had just talked to him and perhaps explained that there was no way that he would let him leave without dropping the belt before joining WCW or something then there perhaps need not be a screwjob.

 

Just my 2 cents anyway.

[Guest tazz13]

Originally posted by Ed_666

The WM13 thing is just hearsay, and even if it's true, that just makes Shawn unprofessional AS WELL as Bret, it doesn't excuse Bret's actions.

 

The difference is Shawn has admitted he was wrong to do things like that, whereas Bret still thinks he was right.

 

Ed

 

Exactly

[Guest Peter K]

Originally posted by Simon

Ed, you're ignoring fact here. Survivor Series was NOT originally going to be Bret's last PPV.

 

Find more out about the incident damnit, like watch Wrestling with Shadows, or even more interesting read Meltzer's report on it, its somewhere on Rajahwwf.com (oh dear I said Meltzer, I'm a nasty smark now).

 

How you can totally stick up for Vince I don't understand, how he went about screwing Bret was clearly wrong... and HBK was an asshole about the whole thing too, another thing that can't be denied.

 

You're right - the following PPV was set to be Bret's last one with the WWF - it was De-Generation X at the Civic Center in Springfield, Mass. - the reason it was that because Bret refused to lose the belt in Canada. - and dropping it in Mass. which is in USA is no problems to him.

[Guest Matt]

A question for Ed 666 if Shawn has admitted he did wrong then how come he is still gloating about it every chance he gets?

e.g On the Highlight Reel on Raw.

[Guest Rikidozan]

Ed, are you totally in denial or delusional?. Vince is a prize pr!ck, surely you know that?. Vince screwed Bret, to say otherwise is sheer buffoonery.

[Guest tazz13]

Originally posted by Sharpshooter121

A question for Ed 666 if Shawn has admitted he did wrong then how come he is still gloating about it every chance he gets?

e.g On the Highlight Reel on Raw.

 

because that's an angle on a wrestling show

 

shawn said "im sorry" on the show 'off the record' here in canada...i saw it for myself

 

bret hart needs to get a life

 

as for vince being a prick...perhaps...but for everyone person that has something bad to say about him, there is someone who will say he was always good to them, etc.

[Guest tazz13]

oh ya ed, i forgot to tell you...if you disagree with rikidozan, prepare to be insulted like your both 8 year olds in a fight over who gets to use the sandbox first

 

its against forum rules to disagree with riki...just ask him, he'll tell you

[Dead Crow 370]

Vince is to blame, not Bret. It's simple logic.

 

> Vince gave Bret a 30-day reasonable creative control clause for when his contract ends. VINCE GAVE HIM THAT CLAUSE!!! Vince knew exactly what Bret could do with such a clause. So how can Bret be blamed for a clause given to him?

 

> Shawn has been an asshole to Bret for over a year. He refused to return the job to Bret at WM13, and had made snide comments about Hart possibly cheating on his wife with Sunny, which were both very unprofessional. Bret was well within his rights to refuse to job to Shawn. Hell, Vince didn't even do anything to reprimand Shawn. If he can't control his own chaos, then that's his problem.

 

> Bret came up with a fair and just way to give up the belt. He worked it all out with Vince that he was gonna lose the belt in a fatal four way at Degeneration X the following month. Vince was the only one who renegaded on that set proposal.

 

> WWE could easily have put a clause into Bret's contract that he wasn't allowed to walk into WCW with the belt as WWF champion, and could have easily sued WCW and Bret (and won) for breaking contract stipulations.

 

> Bret had originally given up a large figure from WCW to stay with WWF. Bret showed true loyalty during Vince's time of need. Vince should have trusted Bret, or at least taken the nessecery precautions before hand. And after what Bret did for Vince, I think Bret was allowed one little request for Vince. Hell, he even promised to drop the belt cleanly before he left. So whats the problem?

 

 

Simple :)

[Guest tazz13]

Originally posted by draVen

Vince is to blame, not Bret. It's simple logic.

 

> Vince gave Bret a 30-day reasonable creative control clause for when his contract ends.

 

true...but that's a VERY ambiguous term

 

obviously vince didn't think bret's scenarios were reasonable...

 

and actually on off the record that was vince's exact response "no i didn't think it was reasonable"...obviously bret thought it was...so why is one man more right then the other

[Guest tazz13]

Originally posted by draVen

Vince is to blame, not Bret. It's simple logic.

 

 

> Shawn has been an asshole to Bret for over a year. He refused to return the job to Bret at WM13, and had made snide comments about Hart possibly cheating on his wife with Sunny, which were both very unprofessional. Bret was well within his rights to refuse to job to Shawn. Hell, Vince didn't even do anything to reprimand Shawn. If he can't control his own chaos, then that's his problem.

 

 

so what?...so michaels is an asshole, big deal...doesn't mean bret hart had to be just as big of one

 

as i said, if bret had dropped the belt to michaels in montreal...everyone woulda said "man bret hart is all class"...we wouldn't be having this discussion today, that's for sure

[Dead Crow 370]

Then that is Vince's fault for not specifying what "reasonable" meant in his eyes.

[Dead Crow 370]

Originally posted by tazzy13

so what?...so michaels is an asshole, big deal...doesn't mean bret hart had to be just as big of one

 

as i said, if bret had dropped the belt to michaels in montreal...everyone woulda said "man bret hart is all class"...we wouldn't be having this discussion today, that's for sure

 

How was Bret an asshole? He had one little request that he was ENTITLED TO!!! Everyone forgets that little point. Bret was ALLOWED to have that request, just like HHH is allowed to request things, just like Austin and Rocky are. And no one jumps on their backs.

[Guest tazz13]

Originally posted by draVen

Then that is Vince's fault for not specifying what "reasonable" meant in his eyes.

 

that may be so...but it doesn't change the fact that its an ambiguous term...obviously bret hart never specified it either when signing his contract

[Guest tazz13]

Originally posted by draVen

How was Bret an asshole? He had one little request that he was ENTITLED TO!!! Everyone forgets that little point. Bret was ALLOWED to have that request, just like HHH is allowed to request things, just like Austin and Rocky are. And no one jumps on their backs.

 

well perhaps i should restate that...i don't know if he was an asshole in the matter

 

but if he had just did the job, everything woulda turned out fine for everyone...losing in montreal would not hurt bret hart in anyway

 

and again...its debatable if he was entitled to his request...reasonable creative control is highly subjective

[Dead Crow 370]

Seriously, I don't see why Bret is being attacked for not wanting to job in his home land, when he said he WOULD LOSE CLEANLY the mnoth after. Hell, I'd have thought that Vince would have loved to have Bret at the following PPV. The buyrate would be bigger than it was, cas people would have expected to see Bret lose, and would be interested as to how it would come about if he were to retain and go on for another month.

 

In that respect, it was also bad business by Vince.

[Guest Rikidozan]

Tazzy, I can't help it. When I see the spelling of an eight year old (you're=you are) it's really just a given I should make fun of someone;)

[Guest Colin]

VINCE SCREWED ME BY CAUSING ME TO READ THIS DAMNED ARGUMENT OVER AND OVER AGAIN!

 

Jesus Christ, it's bloody 2003, it happened in 1997 would people stop going on about the damn thing. It's been almost six years, Bret lost the title boo freaking hoo, we're dealing with a company where the World Title means jack all.

 

Sorry if my comments seem moronic I'm just sick of this damn debate with it always going around in circles.

[Guest tazz13]

Originally posted by Rikidozan

Tazzy, I can't help it. When I see the spelling of an eight year old (you're=you are) it's really just a given I should make fun of someone;)

 

well riki we are all entitled to a few grammar errors now and then

[Guest tazz13]

Originally posted by Colin

Sorry if my comments seem moronic I'm just sick of this damn debate with it always going around in circles.

 

i agree it goes around in circles...that's because good points can be made for each side

[Guest Ed_666]

Originally posted by draVen

How was Bret an asshole? He had one little request that he was ENTITLED TO!!! Everyone forgets that little point. Bret was ALLOWED to have that request, just like HHH is allowed to request things, just like Austin and Rocky are. And no one jumps on their backs.

 

He was entitled to not want to job anywhere in Canada?!?

 

If it was his home town that might have been realistic, but the whole country, that's just ridiculous.

 

If HHH said he'd not job in the USA, what would people say?

 

Ed