UFC 116 - July 3rd - Spoilers

[Guest Dusty Finish]

Okay then, maybe I was being too subtle, as Cathal is a good guy and I didn't want it to come across like I was having a pop.

 

His post was his first vis a vis a point I was making regarding others calling the undercard "horrid" and "crap".

 

Boxing promotion vs who draws isn't as good a comparison as wrestling. Mike Tyson's management & promoters weren't in the WBO business or the World Heavyweight Championship business, they were in the Mike Tyson business. A lot of people can't tell you what MMA is, but can tell you what the UFC is. Most people say "hoover" when they mean vacuum cleaner, and "Coke" when they mean Cola. To the masses, "wrestling" means WWF/E ie. brands are synonomous with or surpass what they represent.

 

I didn't feel the Cena-Orton vs Danielson-McGuinness analogy was particularly fitting, as those matches happened on different stages, one widely accessible and publicised, the other significantly less so. The fights we're discussing here are on a level playing field in that respect (ie. UFC pay per view). Swap Danielson-McGuinness for something comparable like Kofi Kingston-CM Punk, and the prospect that fans may feel equally or more enthused about the lesser names doesn't seem so far fetched does it?

 

No-one has posted more than I on this forum about how top line matchmaking is governed by marketability. However, I said "the trashing of this lineup smaks of thirst for stars"- we weren't talking headliners. The point (possibly not well made, I accept) was that you could stick a fight on the card between someone washed up and a right-place-right-timer who was little more than a solid all-rounder in the first place (Liddell & Franklin- a recent happening, thus easy to draw upon), where the winner goes absolutely nowhere of any importance accept maybe the business end of Jon Jones' glove, and no-one would be ragging on it (the card). How many "Push Wrestler X" threads do you see? If potential main eventer George Sotiropolous is dismissed out of hand because he's not yet a "star", how can the now-irrelevant likes of the aforementioned, Couture, Ortiz, Hughes, Nogueira & Cro Cop be replaced on the marquee? If Hogan and Flair were the focal points of all current TNA enthusiasm, and The Pope dismissed as worthless, there'd be uproar on these boards.

 

Johnny Sky Subscription loves his Premier League. But, if he disregarded last week's World Cup knockout game between the no-name players of Paraguay & Japan to enthuse about the prospect of the Drogba & Lampard-studded Charity Shield, football enthusiasts could surely be forgiven for thinking him a bit silly.

 

To get the subject back on topic: DS, in your original post, you said your money is on Brock, but you didn't specify why? (I hasten to add, I believe a 100% healthy Lesnar wins this fight 4 times out of 5).

[Paul 584]

Simply put, while carwin has the edge in terms of strike speed, Brock has done more damage with his strikes (just look at Mirs face!!!) and I think (and this is opinion) that Brock has the better chin as Carwin has been staggered a few times in fights while the flying knee of Mir barely phased Lesnar.

 

On the ground its a hard call, both men have great wrestling skills, but I think Brocks sheer mass will be too hard to counter with both men having such similer skillsets.

[Guest Frank Botch]

I'm not getting into the whole argument about stars/marketability etc but I think this is a pretty great card, I'm looking forward to Lytle-Brown and especially Pellegrino-Sotiropolous (which I think should be FOTN). I'd easily take Pellegrino-Sotiropolous over Lidell/Franklin or Ortiz/Griffin but then again I'm a weird dude and I can see why people would feel differently. Wow I added nothing to that debate...

 

I've got Carwin in the main event unless it goes to the ground (so I'm sitting on the fence basically). Carwin is a great wrestler and everything but Lesnar is a freak and I don't know if anyone can survive being controlled by him on the mat. Dana confirmed that Cain is next up for the winner followed by the winner of JDS/Nelson.

 

Other predictions: Sotiropoulos, Soszynski, Lytle and Akiyama. All wrong as usual I'm sure.

[Guest Jimmy Redman]

On the ground its a hard call, both men have great wrestling skills, but I think Brocks sheer mass will be too hard to counter with both men having such similer skillsets.

 

Whether you're aware of it already, and it probably doesnt change much anyway, but its worth pointing out that Carwin will go into the fight heavier than Brock.

[Maxximus 353]

Some cool hype pics from the weigh-ins for you guys from Dana White's twitter.

 

BROCK!!!

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2455/124188359f0611f9773e71c.jpg

 

SHANE!!!

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9996/1241887555e48eb21ed9e1f.jpg

 

Face off!

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/1501/124187832aaf4605767a864.jpg

 

The look on Dana's face is priceless.

[Guest Jimmy Redman]

Its probably just bad angles, but Brock's arms look really weird, like his forearms are bigger than his upper arms.

 

Carwin is a beast though, he looks like he just walked out of prison.

[Paul 584]

Whether you're aware of it already, and it probably doesnt change much anyway, but its worth pointing out that Carwin will go into the fight heavier than Brock.

 

Yeah, I was meaning more the way Brocks built. Look at the weight distribution on his body, his torso (especially chest) is so much broader than Carwins. That will make the weight much harder to counter.

 

 

Found this quote on the UKFF

 

Win or lose, Brock Lesnar makes $400,000 at Saturday's UFC 116 event, and Shane Carwin makes a base pay of $40,000 that could double to $80,000 if he's victorious and gets his win bonus.

 

Nevada State Athletic Commission executive director Keith Kizer today emailed the early salary figures to MMAjunkie.com.

 

Additionally, co-headliner Chris Leben earns $43,000 to show with a $43,000 win bonus possible, and opponent Yoshihiro Akiyama gets $45,000 to show with a potential $25,000 as a win bonus.

[Nimf 324]

From the front Carwin looks normal but the "face off" pic is weird - he looks as if he's run into a wall...

 

Oh and why is Brock getting SO much more pay? Thats a HUGE difference!!!

[Paul 584]

Because Brock is the draw, not Carwin.

 

edit:

 

Top 10 PPV buysrates 2009

 

1. UFC 100: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, July 11, 1.6 million

 

2. Boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, Nov. 14, 1.25 million

 

3. Boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, Sept. 19, 1.05 millon

 

4. UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn, Aug. 9, 625,000 Jan. 31, 920,000 buys

 

5. UFC 101: Penn vs. Kenny Florian/Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, Aug. 8, 850,000

 

6. Boxing: Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton, May 2, 825,000

 

7t. UFC 107: Penn vs. Diego Sanchez, Dec. 12, 650,000

 

7t. UFC 97: Silva vs. Thales Leites/Chuck Liddell vs. Mauricio Rua, April 18, 650,000

 

9. UFC 99: Lyoto Machida vs. Rashad Evans/Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra, May 23, 635,000

 

10. Wrestling: WWE WrestleMania 25, April 5, 582,000 buys

 

 

 

 

Top 10 PPV Buyrates 2008

 

 

1. Boxing: Oscar De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao, Dec. 6, 1,250,000

 

2. UFC: Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Couture, Nov. 15, 1,010,000

 

3. Wrestling: WrestleMania, Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Paul “Big Show” Wight, March 30, 670,000

 

4. UFC: Georges St. Pierre vs. Jon Fitch/Lesnar vs. Heath Herring, Aug. 9, 625,000

 

5. UFC: Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, Feb. 2, 600,000

 

6. UFC: Quinton Jackson vs. Forrest Griffin, July 5, 540,000

 

7. UFC: St. Pierre vs. Matt Serra, April 19, 530,000

 

8. Boxing: Felix Trinidad vs. Roy Jones Jr., Jan. 19, 500,000

 

9. UFC: Chuck Liddell vs. Rashad Evans, Sept. 6, 480,000

 

10. UFC: B.J. Penn vs. Sean Sherk/Tito Ortiz vs. Lyoto Machida, May 24, 475,000

 

 

 

 

The guy makes money, lots of money (buyrates were North American only).

Edited July 3, 2010 by Paul

[Nimf 324]

Oh I know but it's a HELL of a lot more. I'd understand maybe getting twice the money but 10 times?? Ouch...

[Guest The Beltster]

Lesnar is the star and is getting star money, I'm shocked that Carwin is getting less than f*cking Leben though, thats a disgrace.

 

Tough call on who wins, but I'm taking Brock. I dunno, I think people are too caught up in whether Lesnar can eat a punch or not that they are forgetting he might not even get punched if he takes Carwin to the ground and yeah, Carwin has good wrestling, but Brock has great wrestling, there's a difference.

 

Still, either way, I dont think I'd be shocked to see either man win. Cant wait!

[Paul 584]

Cant disagree with a word of that, good post Belty. God I'm sooo temoted to stay up for this tonight, even if means finding a party to go to in order to watch...

[Guest The Beltster]

Ah, the old "it's my opinion" card in lieu of any reasoned arguement. I've always thought you were better than that.

Just saw this little comment. What are you on about? I gave you my reasoned argument as to why those who do think its a weak card (and they have every right, by the way, regardless of whether you agree or not, because guess what, you arent the authority on what is and isnt good in everybody elses eyes even though you apparently think you are the oracle of MMA knowledge) shouldnt expect more due to it easily being able to be promoted as a 1 fight card and still doing a big PPV buyrate.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing Sexyama take Chris Leben apart and there are some other decent fights, but take Lesnar/Carwin off this PPV and sell it as it is, and you wouldnt draw shit, THATS my point.

[Nimf 324]

Cant disagree with a word of that, good post Belty. God I'm sooo temoted to stay up for this tonight, even if means finding a party to go to in order to watch...

Our ESPN isn't working, we'll have to wait until it comes on demand tomorrow *sob*

[Guest The GS]

Our ESPN isn't working, we'll have to wait until it comes on demand tomorrow *sob*

 

What's on Demand? Is it free to view PPV's on it or do you have to pay like 15 pounds?

[Nimf 324]

BT Vision has an On Demand service that we don't pay for - so no, I don't have to pay thankfully.

[Guest Sparrow]

I dont know if I should stay up or just record it and watch it tomorrow, I really like to watch things as they happen. I am sure I will just end up staying up for it.

 

Lesnar to win for me. Also looking forward to seeing Leban fight seeing as he only fought a few weeks ago.

[Guest Tommate2k9]

c'mon lesner!

[Guest The Beltster]

Yoshihiro Akiyama has the best entrance in the UFC.

[Guest Dante Spears]

Well, can't say I saw that coming.