UFC 121

[Paul 584]

Shao you'll be better off just forgetting you asked.

[Guest Rikidozan]

Dana White has admitted pro wrestling kicks the UFC's backside in terms of television numbers; the general rule of thumb is, UFC pulls buyrates wrestling could only dream of, while pro wrestling draws television figures the UFC could only draw if they put a stack show together with title fights (which of course they won't, and shouldn't, do)

 

Frank Botch; i'm quite surprised you plumped for Velasquez via KO in the first around, Lesnar showed in the Carwin fight he take a punch or two, and Velasquez doesn't have anywhere near the punching power of Carwin.

[Guest Frank Botch]

Frank Botch; i'm quite surprised you plumped for Velasquez via KO in the first around, Lesnar showed in the Carwin fight he take a punch or two, and Velasquez doesn't have anywhere near the punching power of Carwin.

 

Yeah, I'd definitely agree that he's not as powerful. I picked Cain for the reasons Dusty listed, better technical striker, wouldn't waste top position, wouldn't gas, but I didn't want to go over the same ground he did. I might be paying too much attention to him being the first to knock out Nogueira too because, as we all know, Nog has seen better days.

 

I always bet against Brock though, and he always proves me wrong (apart from that one time), so I'm hoping this month is no different because I really do want him to win.

[Paul 584]

Yeah, I'd definitely agree that he's not as powerful. I picked Cain for the reasons Dusty listed, better technical striker, wouldn't waste top position, wouldn't gas, but I didn't want to go over the same ground he did. I might be paying too much attention to him being the first to knock out Nogueira too because, as we all know, Nog has seen better days.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, Cain couldnt control Kongo and Rothwell with his wrestling, so I cant see him managing to outwrestle Brock.

[Guest Rikidozan]

Changing topic slightly, is there anyone that disagrees with the statement that Lesnar is the biggest draw in MMA history? I'm about 90% decided he is, but can't quite fully commit to 100%.

[etz 78]

The reason UFC do poor numbers on TV is simple. The fights they show on TV aren't usually worthy of PPV, or that's where they would be. They typically save the best for PPV and the rest is on TV. It's not even close to being a problem with the PPV numbers they do. When those fall, then they should worry.

[Guest Frank Botch]

As I said earlier in the thread, Cain couldnt control Kongo and Rothwell with his wrestling, so I cant see him managing to outwrestle Brock.

 

I only watched the Rothwell fight once when it happened but I thought Cain controlled him and pretty much beat the dude up? As I say though I could be, probably am since you watched recently, way off but either way I don't think he has to necessarily outwrestle Lesnar to win, I was more talking about if he gained the same postition as Carwin I'd expect him to finish instead of punching himself out.

[Paul 584]

Nha, he struggled with the takedown then struggled to control him.

[Guest Dusty Finish]

As I said earlier in the thread, Cain couldnt control Kongo and Rothwell with his wrestling, so I cant see him managing to outwrestle Brock.

 

Just to play devil's advocate and keep the speculation going, I'd argue that by the same rationale, Lesnar struggled to control Couture- a man whose tendon strength pales next to Velasquez- in the over/under clinch. Mir engaged the lockdown defence (hindsight, and whatnot), Carwin was running on empty when Lesnar eventually found success.

 

Lesnar's leverage in the close range exchanges will be crucial, but Velasquez wrestled Cole Konrad and Steve Nicci at NCAA Div I level in 2006 (at a 285lb limit, to boot) . In the event that Lesnar is forced to shoot from fair-to-long range, Velasquez will sprawl all day long & force Brock to chase/push the pace... this is where size becomes a moderate disadvantage. Clearly, size, strength & girth belong to Lesnar, but I don't personally believe this is as cut & dry an advantage in this particular fight as some do.

[Guest JC]

It certainly not clear cut anymore, now we've remembered Brock will more than likely shave his uber-beard. :(

[Paul 584]

Brock has said he's keeping the beard for the fight. :D

[Guest JC]

Cain's finished! :devil

[Paul 584]

Just to play devil's advocate and keep the speculation going, I'd argue that by the same rationale, Lesnar struggled to control Couture- a man whose tendon strength pales next to Velasquez- in the over/under clinch.

 

True enough. But look at the levels in wrestling between them all. Randy was an Olympic alternate on 2 or 3 occasions and is a multi year MMA vet. Rothwells wrestling pedigree pales next to that.

 

No, I'm confident Brock goes in with the advantage on the ground. Cains tactics should be, IMO, stay standing and stuff Brocks takedowns, move around and score points for nice clean strikes. If he scores a good one that knocks Brock down then dive in and try some GNP.

[Paul 584]

http://i52.tinypic.com/vdz489.jpg

 

OK, I didnt expect Brock to be that much bigger than Cain. Must be Cuban heels. :lol

[Guest Rikidozan]

Darkstar, Lesnar actually cuts weight to make the 265lbs heavyweight division weight-limit(!)

[Paul 584]

And that is to do with his height comared to Cain why?

[Guest Rikidozan]

It isn't, you mentioned his size, I was just informing you, in case you were unaware.

[Paul 584]

Its a commonly known fact that I knew, but thanks anyway.

 

So yeah, as I was talking about height (hence the mentioning of Cuban heels), any interesting facts there? :P

[Guest Rikidozan]

Hmm...just that Lesnar will always have the size advantage in every one of his fights. Of course, with that also comes the power advantage. Lesnar power and size will always give that extra advantage if everything else is equal. That's why he's the favourite for this fight (only a slight favourite though).

[Guest JC]

Every single time I look at Brock I just get less and less hopeful for Cain's chances.

 

Great fight in prospect though.