Why hate John Cena?

[Omega 354]

F**k dying kids both figuratively and literally.

[Guest Matt Black]

F**k dying kids both figuratively and literally.

 

Your words, mate, not mine.

Edited June 17, 2014 by dsrchris

[Omega 354]

Yeah I know, that would be why I typed them out and then you quoted them...

[ViciousPrism 177]

You read it here first, Megz wants to f**k dying kids.

[Omega 354]

Zing.... Apparently.

[Guest Matt Black]

Yeah I know, that would be why I typed them out and then you quoted them...

 

Just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't the one peddling that sentiment!

Edited June 17, 2014 by dsrchris

[Omega 354]

I just... don't.... *sigh*

[dsrchris 190]

Okay, let's move this along to somewhere back near the topic please folks.

 

Incidentally, I've always said that I don't hate John Cena the person, I hate John Cena the wrestling character. That's more to do with WWE than Cena himself. I'm just fed up of him always being the emergency button for the WWE. No matter what else they may try from time to time, if it shows the slightest wobble or starts to evolve in a way they didn't plan for, WWE hits the reset button, slams Cena in there because "that's what the fans want to see" and the status quo continues.

[Guest Magic]

I'm the same. And it's hard because, nobody wants to see professional athlete get a serious injury, but that niggling asshole that we all have chilling in the back of our minds with his feet on the table lighting a cigarette is going "A torn ACL for Cena would do everybody the world of good. You know, and I know it mate."

 

Well maybe not the WWE merch stands, but I don't give a f*ck about them.

[Guest Matt Black]

Okay, let's move this along to somewhere back near the topic please folks.

 

Incidentally, I've always said that I don't hate John Cena the person, I hate John Cena the wrestling character. That's more to do with WWE than Cena himself. I'm just fed up of him always being the emergency button for the WWE. No matter what else they may try from time to time, if it shows the slightest wobble or starts to evolve in a way they didn't plan for, WWE hits the reset button, slams Cena in there because "that's what the fans want to see" and the status quo continues.

 

I'd agree with this almost completely, I don't want to see Cena put to sleep or anything so drastic, I hate the character and the way it's been allowed to become so stale whilst still being pushed constantly on WWE programming for what feels like decades. The only thing that changes with Cena is the garish colour of his merchandise.

Edited June 17, 2014 by dsrchris

[Guest pheadley]

its up to the other wrestlers to step up theyre game not for cena to step aside. i dont like the character john cena but totally respect the person.

[Guest Matt Black]

its up to the other wrestlers to step up theyre game not for cena to step aside. i dont like the character john cena but totally respect the person.

 

That totally ignores the fact that there are other things involved in the direction that WWE creative chooses to take which have nothing to do with the relative quality of a wrestler's work in the ring and their ability to get over with the fans.

 

Like them or not, CM Punk and Daniel Bryan have arguably long since exceeded Cena's ability in the ring and the former is vastly superior on the mic, in addition they've connected with a wide swath of the audience. One of the things that made Punk walk out was the realisation that he wasn't going to be pushed as the top man in the company over Cena any time soon. Short of taking SuperCena out with a sniper rifle, what else are the other guys in the company supposed to do to "step up"?

 

I get puzzled when people bang on about Cena-haters wanting him to "lie down" for other wrestlers or claiming that he's on top because there's no one else on his level in the WWE. Pro-wrestling isn't the Tour De France, where one rider wins, it's a worked form of entertainment in which the talent needs to work cooperatively to sell the product.

 

Cena's where he is right now because he has a decent understanding of how to wrestle, connects with a young demographic and hasn't managed to injure his opponents in major PPV matches and most importantly, because the WWE put him there. He needs credible opponents and he's not going to live forever. It would be nice if WWE realised this before he gets that career-threatening injury that could put him out of the industry.

Edited June 17, 2014 by dsrchris

[Guest pheadley]

they could try to make themselves more marketable they might be better on the mic and in the ring but every single top guy has got that item that the fans want. nwo t shirt, bret hart glasses, austin 3.16 t shirt. they need to find something thats going to make the company big money. then they will get their push.

[Guest Matt Black]

they could try to make themselves more marketable they might be better on the mic and in the ring but every single top guy has got that item that the fans want. nwo t shirt, bret hart glasses, austin 3.16 t shirt. they need to find something thats going to make the company big money. then they will get their push.

 

Maybe they could try starting up a YouTube show and build it from nothing into a minor phenomenon, winning themselves fans and making the audience get behind their matches so that WWE creative were forced to sit up and pay attention?

 

No, wait...Zack Ryder already did that, and look where it got him: being squashed for three months straight as Cena's little buddy and then buried.

Edited June 17, 2014 by dsrchris

[ViciousPrism 177]

Zack Ryder in hindsight was a mistake. Sure, he got a following, but everyone loves an underdog. Looking back, it was Zack making stupid jokes like how he could draw money, by literally drawing a dollar using crayons. His schtick only marketed to one type of fan, the IWC fanboy. We ate it up, but I guess he didn't really connect with the rest of the audience so we saw him buried. Good. He got annoying as f*ck. Still is. Also, he's a real life jackass. Screw him.

[Guest Matt Black]

Zack Ryder in hindsight was a mistake. Sure, he got a following, but everyone loves an underdog. Looking back, it was Zack making stupid jokes like how he could draw money, by literally drawing a dollar using crayons. His schtick only marketed to one type of fan, the IWC fanboy. We ate it up, but I guess he didn't really connect with the rest of the audience so we saw him buried. Good. He got annoying as f*ck. Still is. Also, he's a real life jackass. Screw him.

 

I hate Ryder's character almost as much as I hate Cena's, let's just get that one out there for the record.

 

I was just citing him as an example of what actually happens when a wrestler makes an independent effort to get over, the way in which WWE will pay lip-service to the idea that what matters is making yourself stand out from the crowd whilst in reality effectively punishing a guy for proving them wrong (even temporarily) about how the fans will react to them.

 

The very idea that a wrestler can get noticed on his own efforts alone is laughable, especially when you think of the numerous times that hopeless gimmicks and the wrestlers behind them have been foisted onto the WWE audience.

Edited June 17, 2014 by dsrchris

[ViciousPrism 177]

I think Ryder's "cred" with the IWC ended almost exactly when WWE started putting a renewed interest into Youtube content and their first pick was to get him to do his schtick on the company account. But yeah, it was innovative, I'll give him that. I reckon they need to properly utilize Smackdown to give the newer untested talents a platform to be creative and still be seen by the audience.

[Omega 354]

But saying Ryder proved them wrong implies that in someone way that WWE either a) were deliberately holding him back or b) didn't believe that the hype was going to last. They were correct if B) and probably right in A) since he just took up someone else's US title reign for 3 months who might have been able to make a genuine contribution.

 

The issue is that we love to cheer the challenger and then lose all interest once the become champions. The only person who that doesn't apply to is Cena. We even got bored of "our darling" CM Punk after a while so what can anyone else hope to achieve?

 

It's nice to think that the people you want to be a success will be a success but it's just not going to happen in the majority of cases.

 

Plus you say that they pay lip service to pushing guys who stand out but stand out doesn't mean "the IWC's newest cause célèbre". Again, Cena can loses matches without losing popularity, he still has the heat when he comes back. Look at a Ziggler or to some extent a first time round Daniel Bryan. They just didn't take with the audience enough for them to come back as strong. Is it that these guys aren't talented? No, of course not but the people who tell you that someone is over is the fans, if the guys you want to stick aren't it's because they can't keep themselves over regardless of whether they're booked strongly or not. Bryan managed to make a thrown together tag run his own, Zack Ryder gets the rub of teaming with Cena before Cena was the object of the IWC's ire and still couldn't get over.

 

I know, I know "The big bad WWE pushes the same John Cena every week" but the same John Cena is the guy 400 dying kids want to see, that shifts the tatty day-glo merch and that pops the crowd when he appears on screen. Sure, if you are after dynamic character development then Cena is going to disappoint but then again so does Superman and his movies do pretty well year in, year out too.

[Guest Matt Black]

But saying Ryder proved them wrong implies that in someone way that WWE either a) were deliberately holding him back or b) didn't believe that the hype was going to last. They were correct if B) and probably right in A) since he just took up someone else's US title reign for 3 months who might have been able to make a genuine contribution.

 

I'm not saying Ryder proved them wrong in the long run or that he should have been pushed to the stars because his crappy YouTube show got attention, just that he was a rare example of someone who got off their arse and got people to notice him in response to the previous poster suggesting that talent in the WWE needed to "step up their game", as if it'd make a difference in the vast majority of cases. It got him nothing in the longer term, so obviously there's more to it than just polishing your act.

 

In Ryder's case it was more like polishing a turd.

Edited June 17, 2014 by dsrchris

[Omega 354]

I don't really understand you're point because you specifically said Ryder proved them wrong (however temporarily) and Pheadley's point is totally valid, you don't magically get put on top and kept there, even Cena isn't getting that treatment, you get to the top and stay at the top because you sell the audience on your gimmick/USP whatever you want to call it. Again, the Cena character may not have developed but it still "works" in all the areas it needs to work as a pro-wrestling character needs to.

 

So what does that mean? To me I see it that Cena is taking a hackneyed, cheesey character and making it work. He sells tickets, he sells merch and the crowd pop for him. The fact that50% or less of the audience don't like him is almost immaterial. If that 50% could get behind a guy and stay behind him then the younger fans would almost certainly turn with them, like in the case of Daniel Bryan. Daniel Bryan stepped up his game, he made half arsed booking decisions work, he got himself over. It's possible to do. It should be possible to keep doing it after your initial push.